Max just passed away :(

[Steve A]

I had a feeling something was wrong with her beyond anything I could control. I took her to the vet last Friday because I was concerned she was sick. He assured me she was a little on the skinny side but that she wasn't sick. She was back to eating right up until yesterday. She was moving around just fine. When I got home today she seemed to just want to go to sleep. I just went in to check on her and she was gone I feel really confident now that she had a respiratory infection. I don't understand how else she could have gone down so far. She was really starting to look better and eat more. I even told the vet her symptoms and he disagreed with me. He should have given her the damn antibiotics. I'm just really upset right now. Maybe he was right and it was something else. I really don't know. This is so sad. I feel so bad for her. I just bought her a huge bakers rack to compliment her entire setup, and literally today I bought her a new cage online, and now I won't have her to put in it when it gets here

Thank you all for your help and the information you've provided. Especially @MissSkittles. You've been amazing in providing me with information. I feel I've learned so much on here. I'm not really sure where I'm going to go from here. I've bought all this stuff for her and now I don't know if it's better if I give up on Chameleons now and try to sell what I have, or try again. I feel awful right now, like this is all my fault.

 

[MissSkittles]

Oh no! I’m so very sorry. They can be so fragile yet tough enough to not show that anything is wrong until it’s often too late. Take your time to grieve. Maybe do something to honor her memory, such as plant a tree or whatever will help heal your heart. Put her things aside for now and don’t rush into any decisions…you have plenty of time. I believe that the universe has a way of guiding us if we give it a little time. ((()))

 

[Steve A]

Oh no! I’m so very sorry. They can be so fragile yet tough enough to not show that anything is wrong until it’s often too late. Take your time to grieve. Maybe do something to honor her memory, such as plant a tree or whatever will help heal your heart. Put her things aside for now and don’t rush into any decisions…you have plenty of time. I believe that the universe has a way of guiding us if we give it a little time. ((()))

Thats a good idea but I don't know what to plant because her plants are tropical and they won't survive in NJ. We were thinking about getting some crapemyrtle for the hummingbirds outside. Maybe we could do that for her. Thank you so much again. I'll be back if we decide to try again.

 

[Tkrd69]

So sorry for your loss When my boy Sassy passed last year, I cleaned the enclosure and planted pothos in it and let it grow.

 

[Steve A]

So sorry for your loss When my boy Sassy passed last year, I cleaned the enclosure and planted pothos in it and let it grow.

Thank you. My son was pretty upset but he does want to to try again. So I'm going to try to learn from my mistakes from the beginning. We're going to purchase from a breeder. Take our time with it and set up the new enclosure first,etc. We have a nice big pothos in there right now and a ficus benjamina that's about the same size. I'm gonna repot them and let them continue to grow bigger. If I go with a 2'x2'x4' enclosure then I should be in pretty good shape with what I have. Plus more plants of course. If anyone has any recommendations for a breeder near south Jersey I'd appreciate it.

 

[JacksJill]

I'm so sorry for your loss.
If there isn't a breeder near you don't be afraid to have one shipped overnight. If done properly by a good breeder they sleep through the trip and have little stress. It is far better for them than being in a pet store in over crowded conditions and getting poor care.

 

[Steve A]

I'm so sorry for your loss.
If there isn't a breeder near you don't be afraid to have one shipped overnight. If done properly by a good breeder they sleep through the trip and have little stress. It is far better for them than being in a pet store in over crowded conditions and getting poor care.

Thank you! It looks like that'll be my only option. And I'm okay with that. I'm just having trouble deciphering who would be good to purchase from thats affordable. But I know we're gonna have to pay more this route and that's fine. I'm open to any suggestions

 

[JacksJill]

@jannb would always be my first choice for veiled that are raised with care and love but there are some other good breeders here,

 

[Steve A]

@jannb would always be my first choice for veiled that are raised with care and love but there are some other good breeders here,

Ty! @jannb do you have a website? If not I'd be interesting in pricing for a male (preferably) shipped to New Jersey.

 

[JacksJill]

She is a hobby breeder so probably no website but here is a recent thread on a clutch of babies. threads/hunter-bane-and-gamora-babies

 

[Steve A]

She is a hobby breeder so probably no website but here is a recent thread on a clutch of babies. threads/hunter-bane-and-gamora-babies

Thank you!

 

[Beman]

I am so sorry for your loss... Please do not give up... Something had to be wrong for her to pass like that. I do not recall where you got her from but that is the biggest component to getting a cham. Buying from a reputable breeder increases your chances of success.

If I may make a suggestion. I know you mentioned you have a son. Have you considered going with a Male panther chameleon? I say this because their temperaments can be more docile than a veiled. Don't get me wrong I love my veiled but my 19 year old daughter will not even go near him as he is so particular about people. He literally will only allow me near his cage or handling him.

There are some excellent Panther breeders and you can even speak to them directly to get their opinion on a male that would be more docile with your son. I just saw yesterday on their social media that iPardalis is running a 30% off sale for summer with a code. He breeds stunning Yellow body blue bar Ambilobe Panthers. We have some excellent site sponsors that are breeders.

If your set on a Veiled Frams chams breeds them. But I do not know when their next clutch will be ready. You would want to reach out to them.

 

[Steve A]

I am so sorry for your loss... Please do not give up... Something had to be wrong for her to pass like that. I do not recall where you got her from but that is the biggest component to getting a cham. Buying from a reputable breeder increases your chances of success.

If I may make a suggestion. I know you mentioned you have a son. Have you considered going with a Male panther chameleon? I say this because their temperaments can be more docile than a veiled. Don't get me wrong I love my veiled but my 19 year old daughter will not even go near him as he is so particular about people. He literally will only allow me near his cage or handling him.

There are some excellent Panther breeders and you can even speak to them directly to get their opinion on a male that would be more docile with your son. I just saw yesterday on their social media that iPardalis is running a 30% off sale for summer with a code. He breeds stunning Yellow body blue bar Ambilobe Panthers. We have some excellent site sponsors that are breeders.

If your set on a Veiled Frams chams breeds them. But I do not know when their next clutch will be ready. You would want to reach out to them.

We bought her from petsmart. Couldn't help myself when I saw her

We are definitely going with a breeder this time around. I'm gonna reach out to Frams. I like the idea of a panther but I'd be worried about night time Temps since Max's cage would get Into the low-mid 60s at night. Also, my son doesn't prefer to handle them. Which is partially how we landed on a chameleon for him. He's special needs and he just likes to talk to them sometimes (softly) and the fact they change colors. He actually has no interest in handling. I only ever even handled Max when I really had to, such as fixing her husbandry. Which this time around I know a lot more so I'm gonna have everything set before our next one arrives. Max was a true learning experience for me. And I kind of feel more comfortable with a Veiled since that was my focus in learning so far. But I may look into panthers. They're so beautiful and colorful so I think he'd love a panther. Thank you for the recommendation!

 

[Beman]

We bought her from petsmart. Couldn't help myself when I saw her

We are definitely going with a breeder this time around. I'm gonna reach out to Frams. I like the idea of a panther but I'd be worried about night time Temps since Max's cage would get Into the low-mid 60s at night. Also, my son doesn't prefer to handle them. Which is partially how we landed on a chameleon for him. He's special needs and he just likes to talk to them sometimes (softly) and the fact they change colors. He actually has no interest in handling. I only ever even handled Max when I really had to, such as fixing her husbandry. Which this time around I know a lot more so I'm gonna have everything set before our next one arrives. Max was a true learning experience for me. And I kind of feel more comfortable with a Veiled since that was my focus in learning so far. But I may look into panthers. They're so beautiful and colorful so I think he'd love a panther. Thank you for the recommendation!

Ok so just to make sure you know what the difference in husbandry is for a male panther vs a male veiled. You are still looking at a basking temp of 80-85 max for either. Now your difference comes with daytime humidity needs. A panther needs an ambient level of 40-50%. Recommended levels for a veiled run 40-50% as well. But a veiled can tolerate down to 30%.
Night time temp drops for both species should run a low of 60. Panthers also do not eat their plants where a veiled will.

Otherwise literally everything is the same... This is one of the easier species to transition into keeping if you have veileds. Because their husbandry needs are so similar. On chameleon Academy at the top Bill has a species profile. Compare the two. He is also running a Panther series Podcast... I think this is an awesome way to have real info and he goes into a lot in it. https://chameleonacademy.com/panther_chameleon_podcast/

I think a Panther would be wonderful for your son. The colors they have are just stunning. Frams breeds Panthers as well. Check out the sponsors sites and then go check out their social. They post a lot of additional content their and you can really see what they strive for. Color and temperament seems to be the theme with the major breeders.

But please do not give up... You had done a wonderful job and hit a wall with a vet that would not listen to you. This happens and I hate it but it is so common. I have had vets argue with me about husbandry until they realize that I am not a dumb woman with no clue. lol So the more you know the more you will know what to look for and how to advocate with a vet. I got very lucky with Beman being a Petco baby. They had him less than a week. But so many veileds in big box stores come with major issues. It is very very hit or miss with buying there. When your new and not sure what to look for and then get a vet that is not any help because they actually do not know what to look for either then things like this can happen. But you did everything right and were making the changes needed for her. You were actively learning about her needs. She got to spend time with someone that really cared for her.

 

[Steve A]

We bought her from petsmart. Couldn't help myself when I saw her

We are definitely going with a breeder this time around. I'm gonna reach out to Frams. I like the idea of a panther but I'd be worried about night time Temps since Max's cage would get Into the low-mid 60s at night. Also, my son doesn't prefer to handle them. Which is partially how we landed on a chameleon for him. He's special needs and he just likes to talk to them sometimes (softly) and the fact they change colors. He actually has no interest in handling. I only ever even handled Max when I really had to, such as fixing her husbandry. Which this time around I know a lot more so I'm gonna have everything set before our next one arrives. Max was a true learning experience for me. And I kind of feel more comfortable with a Veiled since that was my focus in learning so far. But I may look into panthers. They're so beautiful and colorful so I think he'd love a panther. Thank you for the recommendation!

After looking on chameleon academy it looks like our home would be very suitable for panthers. And my son absolutely loves the colors of the males and now that's what he wants so we are looking at panthers now

 

[Flick boy]

Sorry for your loss

 

[jannb]

I’m so sorry for your loss.

 

[Steve A]

Ok so just to make sure you know what the difference in husbandry is for a male panther vs a male veiled. You are still looking at a basking temp of 80-85 max for either. Now your difference comes with daytime humidity needs. A panther needs an ambient level of 40-50%. Recommended levels for a veiled run 40-50% as well. But a veiled can tolerate down to 30%.
Night time temp drops for both species should run a low of 60. Panthers also do not eat their plants where a veiled will.

Otherwise literally everything is the same... This is one of the easier species to transition into keeping if you have veileds. Because their husbandry needs are so similar. On chameleon Academy at the top Bill has a species profile. Compare the two. He is also running a Panther series Podcast... I think this is an awesome way to have real info and he goes into a lot in it. https://chameleonacademy.com/panther_chameleon_podcast/

I think a Panther would be wonderful for your son. The colors they have are just stunning. Frams breeds Panthers as well. Check out the sponsors sites and then go check out their social. They post a lot of additional content their and you can really see what they strive for. Color and temperament seems to be the theme with the major breeders.

But please do not give up... You had done a wonderful job and hit a wall with a vet that would not listen to you. This happens and I hate it but it is so common. I have had vets argue with me about husbandry until they realize that I am not a dumb woman with no clue. lol So the more you know the more you will know what to look for and how to advocate with a vet. I got very lucky with Beman being a Petco baby. They had him less than a week. But so many veileds in big box stores come with major issues. It is very very hit or miss with buying there. When your new and not sure what to look for and then get a vet that is not any help because they actually do not know what to look for either then things like this can happen. But you did everything right and were making the changes needed for her. You were actively learning about her needs. She got to spend time with someone that really cared for her.

Thank you so much for this. I appreciate the very kind words. Especially since I feel so at fault. Luckily Max's enclosure was almost always around 40-50% humidity during the day (ambient temps in the low 70s, basking temp approx 85f, and at night low-mid 60sf), and once I learned I should be misting+fogging at night, I had her humidity in the 90s-100% at night.

We are going to be ordering the 2'x2'x4' enclosure soon. I'm just debating on whether we want to do dragon ledges, or go bioactive. I'm looking at getting a male panther specifically, if all goes well. To be completely honest, I can't do dragon ledges AND completely bioactive, as it seems like going bioactive is going to cost me almost $300 for just the substrate/soil/etc I need alone. I'm prepared to spend more on a chameleon, but considering we just bought so much for Max, that I already had to rebuy, I do have to restrain myself from going too crazy financially.

I really, really want to try a bioactive enclosure. I'm kind of leaning towards that. But I'm also a can of the 'clean' (looking) setups the dragon ledges provide. Thank you so much again. I appreciate this a lot.

 

[Beman]

Thank you so much for this. I appreciate the very kind words. Especially since I feel so at fault. Luckily Max's enclosure was almost always around 40-50% humidity during the day (ambient temps in the low 70s, basking temp approx 85f, and at night low-mid 60sf), and once I learned I should be misting+fogging at night, I had her humidity in the 90s-100% at night.

We are going to be ordering the 2'x2'x4' enclosure soon. I'm just debating on whether we want to do dragon ledges, or go bioactive. I'm looking at getting a male panther specifically, if all goes well. To be completely honest, I can't do dragon ledges AND completely bioactive, as it seems like going bioactive is going to cost me almost $300 for just the substrate/soil/etc I need alone. I'm prepared to spend more on a chameleon, but considering we just bought so much for Max, that I already had to rebuy, I do have to restrain myself from going too crazy financially.

I really, really want to try a bioactive enclosure. I'm kind of leaning towards that. But I'm also a can of the 'clean' (looking) setups the dragon ledges provide. Thank you so much again. I appreciate this a lot.

I think there are good aspects to bio active and bad. I chose not to go bioactive. Your dealing with a mini eco system and it can be hard to get everything perfectly balanced. Also harder to find fecal and urate to know how the cham is doing in that way. I personally prefer dragon ledges and a clean bottom. I have more control over the environment and know everything that is coming out of him. I tend to be very cray cray though about things being perfect. Which may be why I lean to a bare bottom enclosure rather than bio active lol.

 

[Steve A]

I think there are good aspects to bio active and bad. I chose not to go bioactive. Your dealing with a mini eco system and it can be hard to get everything perfectly balanced. Also harder to find fecal and urate to know how the cham is doing in that way. I personally prefer dragon ledges and a clean bottom. I have more control over the environment and know everything that is coming out of him. I tend to be very cray cray though about things being perfect. Which may be why I lean to a bare bottom enclosure rather than bio active lol.

That's a really good point. I am super paranoid even more than I was before now so I'm going to want to be able to check up on his/her poop for sure.