HELP found on bottom of cage. Really dark colors

[RSGriff]

I found vince on the bottom of the outdoor cage on his side and he looked dead about 20 min ago. He is still alive and breathing, but he hasnt changed color since. He opened his mouth and I put some water in and he drank. I thought he may have fallen and broke his back, but he grabbed my finger with his back leg. Also, it looks as if his eyes are rolled back. The cage was shut so I dont think a bee or spider would have stung/bit him. He was not fed yet today so he should not be impacted. The dripper was going so he should be hydrated. The current outside temp is 86*f.

 

[ocular_factitus]

this happened a couple of times to my veiled cham, he got over it, it's happened twice more afterward.
I have no clue as to what it was. But he recovered, I've never witnessed this before in my other cham.
I hate to sound like "don't take him to the vets" but he'll get over it most likely.
If you do decide to go to the vets, get a stool sample.

 

[RSGriff]

eyes are severly sunken in and rear legs are swollen. He appears dehydrated, but my mom said 20min before she had checked him and he was fine. He is drinking and color appears to be coming back through his tail and legs.

 

[RSGriff]

I called 3 vets. They all refered me in a loop to take care of reptiles so f-them. Other than that I dont know of a reptile vet/hospitle within 3 hrs and if he is going to die, I wouldnt make it in that time

 

[ocular_factitus]

Whew that's good to hear, i hate that feeling, isn't it alien?
Like what am i gonna do holy sh*t. Keep in touch with this.
Do you have pics?

 

[RSGriff]

hes still not good looking and could easily turn back around. what did you do when yours was in this condition?

He just looks horrible and in a lot of pain. He isnt moving or holding on to anything. His legs are sprawled out and is laying on his stomach. Ill try to get pics asap.

 

[RSGriff]

That is two days ago

This is now.

Notice his jaw is limp

 

[chambabysitter1]

Pictures for sure would help. It sounds like an emergency of sorts and you should be as worried as you are. Chameleon's don't just bounce back from almost death like symptoms. They don't just get over it most likely, that is the first time I've heard anyone say that to a chameleon on the edge of death.

This may help others if you fill it out.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

A reliable vet can be found here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/veterinarian-resources-67/

edit: I see you put up pics.

Also, how long ago did you see symptoms?

 

[dodolah]

post pic asap.. but judging only from the description, I do not think there is much hope. Sorry...
but, here is a good link to locate exotic vet around your area:
www.herpvetconnections.com
www.arav.org

Edit: I see you post the pics.. can I see how you set up the enclosure?.. that is a drastic change from the 2 days before..

 

[ocular_factitus]

You know, big shame on me, but i did nothing, i knew it was something that was biological.
At first i thought it was the calcium and multivitamin supplements i were giving him,
so i switched to what the best cham enthusiasts use, he hasn't had an attack since.
I was using a liquid calcium and mv formula from Zilla. How old is Vince?

 

[ocular_factitus]

Once with Goliath, my C J Xantholophus He went completely white,.
I actually performed CPR on him and a minute after all of his color shot back into him, and he began breathing again.
I'm not saying this going to happen, but miracles happen when you put faith and hard core prayer into it.

 

[chambabysitter1]

All of the advice you have been offering is a little odd. Giving out some pretty permanent solutions, without any solid diagnosis. If anything this is dangerous to do, especially for someone newer to the hobby asking for help.

Telling her not to go to the vet, or that "chameleon CPR" may be the answer, I would not trust this information, and wait for more reliable knowledge.

 

[RSGriff]

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - screen, 20x20x3' outdoor cage. Free Range at nights/bad weather
* Lighting - zoo med linear 5.0, Home depot heat light. not on outside unless heavily overcast. on for inside days. no lights at night
* Temperature - ranging outdoor temps. highest outside temp today is in the upper 80's.
* Humidity - varry with outside. currently 50%. There is a dripper that runs out there. Misting on free range
* Plants - Pothos in outdoor. hibiscus and umbrella (shiff.....spelling...)
* Placement - Back deck. bottom of cage is 2.5 feet off the ground low traffic. Free range is in my bedroom medium traffic
* Location - NE Ohio


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Male 5mo 3mo in my possession
* Handling - too often. into and out of cage from free range
* Feeding - crix, supers, pheonix, horns, silks. no schedule, just about 7-more/day since he is young (He may be eating wilds but I cant see how they are getting into the cage. If anything, its flies)
* Supplements - rep-cal w/o d3, reptive w/ and w/o d3
* Watering - dripper/ mist bottle
* Fecal Description - never tested. I just found it and thought it was a dead hornworm in the bottom. Not well digested and I know its poop bc it has 2 pheonix worms attached to it partially but barely digested
* History - good health until now. see pictures aboce
* Current Problem - something is clearly wrong. Impacted? Dehydrated? Parasite?

 

[chambabysitter1]

The fecal description sounds interesting. Can you get a picture?

What were they like before? (Urate and Poop)

A picture of the enclosure may help as well.

Also, sorry to say, but when people post their chameleons in that pale, limp state, death is usually pretty close.

You can still take it to a vet to see what is wrong, or perhaps have it put down peacefully. I do hope something works out.

 

[RSGriff]

I havnt found one for a day or two.. his free range is pretty big and his outdoor is pretty dense with fake/live foliage so it didnt concern me. prior to this, dark brown poo, bleach white urate. I did not see a urate attached to this poo.

 

[RSGriff]

fecal picture attached. I could not find a urate.

 

[RSGriff]

I can see his heart beating, it appears to be fast, but I have never looked at it before, and his lungs moving slower than usual (I think). His color is returning to his tail, rear legs and back but his head and belly are still dark. His eyes are still black. I have seen him open them a few times, but they are currently closed. He is taking water from a plastic syringe. It looks like he moved his feet to try to stand but his weight is still on his belly. He will open his mouth and make his pissed off gasp sound but it is faint compared to the actual pissed off gasp.

 

[RSGriff]

It looks like he is trying to get up on his feet. His eyes are still black and it looks like he may be going back downhill. someone/anyone if you know how to help, please comment. No vets are open now and the hospital is too far away. If he makes it through the night Im taking him and his fecal to the vet tomorrow.

 

[Pure]

You keep talking about the dripper outside, yet you've made no mention of misting outside. From the description and the pics this Cham looks like he got too hot. If it got 86 outside you can bet it got 96-110 baking under the sun.

 

[RSGriff]

the thermometer in the cage said 86* which is usually in the direct sunlight. It is possible though that this could be the case. My mom put him outside this morning around 11 with the driper continuously going. I doubt she misted. Is it possible that his fecal was too big and caused him internal digestive trauma?