Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis
- Thread starter Rodzuf
- Start date
FrankTheTank
Established Member
Lol I've never seen anyone spell gnat like that. Threw me off for a second. I wouldn't use anything like that around chameleons that isn't proven to be safe. If you can't find it in a search on this forum then I wouldn't suggest using it.
Also here is a Canadian release on the product.
http://www.algomapublichealth.com/UserFiles/File/Media/West Nile virus/282.pdf
http://www.algomapublichealth.com/UserFiles/File/Media/West Nile virus/282.pdf
shmeenakoz
Member
Idk, id be worried about using my cham as a guinea pig to see if a gram-pos spore former is safe in their close quarters to rid other problem pests. JMO tho, what may not harm us could have a totally different effect on the lil' ones who have a more delicate respiratory system. Id crosscheck references to that microbe (similar GPB-spore forming) and reptiles first.
Baksmurf
New Member
Introducing a new bacteria to chameleons is not a good idea. Given that chameleons are primarily insectivores I would be wary of using this. Especially if this bacteria hasn't been tested against it's other food sources like crickets, silkworms, hornworms, and not to mention some feed their chams blue bottle flies. Just wondering if you introduced this to you house for pest control if your feeders would become toxic? Not worth the risk in my opinion.
Thanks for the comments. I have been hesitant to test mainly because I don't have the equipment to validate if their was issues. My gut says there is Likely no issues. I believe this product is already in use in Hawaii, and different locations in Africa and the amazon basin. There has been some testing with amphibians which generally are sensitive indicators.
shmeenakoz
Member
Is your bug issue that bad that you'd be willing to risk it, or is it a slight issue you can just live with? Exactly what are you trying to eradicate (specific bug) just curious? If its just gnats, then I would do the old soap and vinegar method, it works like a charm 
I have 7 vivariums and growing. They all have fungus gnats to some degree. Because they are fully setup tanks I cannot take them apart and use soap and water. Having said that I am have not applied BTI. That's exactly why I posted here to see what the consensus was. Don't you think this exact arguments were made when some decided to test horse dewormer on chameleons. Again I have not applied BTI and probably won't but I hope someone more scientific may take up the idea.
shmeenakoz
Member
Hmmm, fungus is not good either...well until you get some more data I would leave out dishes of dish soap and red wine vinegar or just vinegar. They will flock to the dishes and drown. Good luck
DGray
Avid Member
B. t. i. with a notation for the strain that is effective on fungus gnats (not all Bti strains work on gnats), are safe and effective when used as a soil drench. I use the form in a product sold as "Mosquito Bits". I do not find the control is as complete as when using Imidacloprid. Neither is dangerous to reptiles, especially when using them properly as soil drench. Bti can also be used in drinking water vessels where mosquitos might breed there.
I make a "tea" with the bits and then water the pots with that after an hour of steeping.
I make a "tea" with the bits and then water the pots with that after an hour of steeping.
MelissaB
Avid Member
A drop of dish soap in apple cider vinegar works great for fruit flies, but I have zero luck with using that for fungus gnats. I've used the BTI as well as mosquito dunks for infested houseplants (bad batch of potting soil) , but had been hesitant to try it in my enclosures. They haven't been too bad, lately, but it's nice to know that I could if I use it if I needed to. It only kills the larvae, so you need to use it every few days, until you're sure they're gone.
Great discussion I have also used BTI particularly the product "WDG Gnatrol" for plants as a soil drench. I have also used musqitoe dunks for house plants for years with almost 100% eradication results after 2-3 soil drenches. Dgray do you have any scientific data or are you supplying real world experience?
If this indeed a safe method of treating fungus gnats this is the kind if stuff this community, and vivariums keepers should spread the word. As so few products are made for these directly for these hobbies, and likely ever will for profit. To me this is how we improve the hobby.
shmeenakoz
Member
Well heck if its safe…I do want to run this past my micro nerds at the lab tho and see what they think I only skimmed the "scary" stuff from WHO. Ya know the warnings and all, didn't have time to really look into the science of it, regardless its gonna take me some time to think it over, read and discuss with the colleagues. I too am a viv person so this is something I should look into i suppose. Agreed good discussion and feedback thus far
I only skimmed the "scary" stuff from WHO. Ya know the warnings and all, didn't have time to really look into the science of it, regardless its gonna take me some time to think it over, read and discuss with the colleagues. I too am a viv person so this is something I should look into i suppose. Agreed good discussion and feedback thus far
DGray
Avid Member
Ah, data on what question? I do have many decades of real world experience.
DGray
Avid Member
Ah, you think there may be some effect from the Bti used as a drench, and then consumed by a chameleon that eats the soil? Bt is well studied in non-target organisms, but I'm sure no studies exist on that. Considering the nature of Bt strains and their mode of action, I have no worries about its use in herp environments. There is a vast literature on all the Bt, and if there were lizard or tortoise hazards, I think we would know about them, as the tropical keepers use Bt all the time.
Even Imidocloprid is fairily safe with reptiles, and while some proponents claim it is safe, I would never use it directly in an amphibian enclosure. Reptiles and frogs are very different in tolerance of toxins.
In the larger view, the chameleon community would seem to be obsessed with removing the slightest possibility of a risk from some contaminants, while blithely embracing the chemical pharmaceuticals, cleaners, and artificial furnishings.
