Baby Veiled Chameleon Sleeping

[Jaza P]

Hi all,
I am a new chameleon mum, got him approximately 5 days ago.
I understand that chams get stressed easily and take time to get used to their new surroundings, but I noticed today that he is not eating as he usually does and is closing his eyes during the day.
I tried to feed him a gut-loaded cricket and he took one but then went back to sleep.
Super worried about him and if he's okay. Don't want to take him out of his enclosure yet because it's too soon and may stress him out even more.

He's in a 3ft high mesh enclosure with live foliage and many branches and hiding places.
Any advice on what we can do so that he's a little more active and is there anything I should be worried about?

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. I’m afraid it’s never good when a chameleon is closing its eyes during the day. For little ones, too many missed meals isn’t good either. Often these things are related to something about your husbandry being out of whack, which we can help you figure out and fix. That along with a vet visit should get your little one feeling and being all better and back to good health. Just need you to answer the following questions and do please include pics of your chameleon and your entire enclosure, including the lights. It’s also super helpful to post pics of what supplements you’re using too.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum and the wirld of chameleons!

Please do answer the questions @MissSkittles has posted…we can’t tell you what to change if we don’t know what’s wrong.

 

[Jaza P]

Hi and welcome. I’m afraid it’s never good when a chameleon is closing its eyes during the day. For little ones, too many missed meals isn’t good either. Often these things are related to something about your husbandry being out of whack, which we can help you figure out and fix. That along with a vet visit should get your little one feeling and being all better and back to good health. Just need you to answer the following questions and do please include pics of your chameleon and your entire enclosure, including the lights. It’s also super helpful to post pics of what supplements you’re using too.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

Apologies for the delayed response which is due to the time difference.
It would be a good point to note that we are based in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia as well.

 Species - Veiled Chameleon, male. In my care for 6 days now.

 Handling - Have not handled him as yet only opening the enclosure during feeding time.

 Feeding - Pinhead crickets and fruit flies. Crickets are gut loaded with greens and carrots and sprinkled with Calcium without D3. I noticed that he does not eat from the feeding cup and will only eat the crickets when I place them ontop of leaves or a branch.

Supplements - As of now, it has been Calcium without D3, and yesterday was the first dose of Calcium with D3. No Multivitamins dose yet.

Watering - Auto mister, every 3 hours for 1 minute.

Fecal - Have not noticed any fecal matter as yet, might also be due to the lack of eating?

History - We got him from a breeder, with minimal information. We were told that he is a male, 2 months old.

Cage Type - Full mesh, 18x18x36".

Lighting - UVB: 12 hours from 7am to 7pm. Heat: In intervals as the temperature in Malaysia is pretty high.

 Temperature - Day: 28 to 33°, Night: 25 to 29°.

 Humidity - Day: 35 to 60%, Night: 85 to 100%.

Both temp and humidity are measured with Combo meter by Exoterra.

 Plants - Photos, Hibiscus, Devil's Ivy, Monstera.

 Placement - Corner of the room, with no direct air-conditioning, windows or much activity. Height of the table is 2.5ft.

Location - Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Here are some videos of him: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pLZ0VqP7-DgyXRSkOUIpAeFPkpk8CW96

Thanks in advance.

 

[MissSkittles]

Give me a little bit and I’ll go thru it all.

 

[MissSkittles]

Aww…he’s just a teeny tiny little guy.

Species - Veiled Chameleon, male. In my care for 6 days now.

 Handling - Have not handled him as yet only opening the enclosure during feeding time. Eventually you’ll want to work on building trust with him. Here’s a great blog on how that’s done. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

 Feeding - Pinhead crickets and fruit flies. Crickets are gut loaded with greens and carrots and sprinkled with Calcium without D3. I noticed that he does not eat from the feeding cup and will only eat the crickets when I place them ontop of leaves or a branch. Excellent. He should be getting as many as he can eat in about a 15-20 minute period, 2 times a day. As he gets older, you’ll want to have a rotation of a few different staples feeders along with occasional treats. You could add a little bit more to what you feed your bugs then too. Attaching some graphics below.

Supplements - As of now, it has been Calcium without D3, and yesterday was the first dose of Calcium with D3. No Multivitamins dose yet. Perfect! You’ll want to give the calcium without D3 every feeding except when using a different supplement. The calcium with D3 should be given one feeding every other week and alternated with a good multivitamin which is also used one feeding every other week.

Watering - Auto mister, every 3 hours for 1 minute. That’s a bit too much. It would be much better to mist for at least 2 minutes right before lights go on and off and mid day is optional depending on your needs. Some choose to use a dripper during the day for about 15-20 minutes, but again it’s only if needed. Look to the urate (white part of the poo) to determine. All white or mostly white means he’s well hydrated. A little tip of orange is ok, especially if he hasn’t pooped in a few days.

Fecal - Have not noticed any fecal matter as yet, might also be due to the lack of eating? I would definitely suggest getting a fecal check for parasites when he does poo. That could the problem.

History - We got him from a breeder, with minimal information. We were told that he is a male, 2 months old. Age looks about right.

Cage Type - Full mesh, 18x18x36". This is ok for now, but as he gets older and bigger, he’ll need at least a 2x2x4’ or bigger if you can. Males especially benefit from bigger and use all the space we can give them.

Lighting - UVB: 12 hours from 7am to 7pm. Heat: In intervals as the temperature in Malaysia is pretty high. I can’t tell if you have a T5 or T8 fixture for uvb. While T5 is preferred, a T8 is ok. The difference is what strength bulb you’d need to use and the distance to basking area. I do advise raising the lights at least a couple of inches above the screen top. Little ones love to walk upside down on the top and can very easily get burned. I use little wire baskets from a dollar store to raise my lights. I’m sure you can find something that will work.

 Temperature - Day: 28 to 33°, Night: 25 to 29°. Much too hot both day and night. Babies should be kept cooler than adults at around 26-27c during the day. Night time for all chameleons preferably is below 21-22c. You may not need a basking light at all.

 Humidity - Day: 35 to 60%, Night: 85 to 100%. These are a bit too high. Ideal range during the day is between 30-50%. Reducing the number/frequency of misting will help greatly to bring you down just right. At night unless you can achieve a temperature below at least 21c, you don’t want to boost humidity. High heat plus high humidity increases risks for respiratory infection. Do keep an eye on your little one now for signs of one…keeping his head raised (star gazing), any noises at all when he breathes, thick ropy saliva.

Both temp and humidity are measured with Combo meter by Exoterra. Is that digital or analog? I ask because the analog ones are notoriously inaccurate. Digital ones with probe ends are better.

 Plants - Photos, Hibiscus, Devil's Ivy, Monstera. Excellent! Since very little is jumping out from your husbandry I have to ask if you washed the plants/leaves before using them.

 Placement - Corner of the room, with no direct air-conditioning, windows or much activity. Height of the table is 2.5ft. Good!

Location - Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Cool!
Your husbandry is actually quite good, except for the temps and humidity. The only things that I would suspect based on your info would be parasites or a respiratory infection. Of course, chameleons like all living creatures are susceptible to a variety of ailments. Little ones are particularly fragile and some will just fail to thrive for no apparent reason. Because of that, most breeders will keep them until they’ve reached at least 3-4 months old. I almost wish there was an obvious problem with your husbandry to explain why your baby isn’t eating and is closing his eyes. Definitely a vet visit and soon is your best course of action. Unless I’m missing something, which is possible as I’m quite distracted today. I’m asking another member to just double check all I’ve said just to be safe. @Beman

 

[Beman]

When you post more info on the UVB type and bulb strength I can provide a bit more info. I would also like to know what the distance is from the UVB on the screen top to those branches below?

Temps being too hot can effect babies quite a bit. I would raise the heat fixture up off the top so it reduces inside temps.

 

[Jaza P]

When you post more info on the UVB type and bulb strength I can provide a bit more info. I would also like to know what the distance is from the UVB on the screen top to those branches below?

Temps being too hot can effect babies quite a bit. I would raise the heat fixture up off the top so it reduces inside temps.

We are using a T5 linear bulb that is 10.0 instead of 5.0 (due to the whole country not having any stock of 5.0 but we will be able to get the 5.0 by July). The basking area is 12 inches from light > mesh > branch.

 

[Jaza P]

Aww…he’s just a teeny tiny little guy.

Species - Veiled Chameleon, male. In my care for 6 days now.

 Handling - Have not handled him as yet only opening the enclosure during feeding time. Eventually you’ll want to work on building trust with him. Here’s a great blog on how that’s done. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

 Feeding - Pinhead crickets and fruit flies. Crickets are gut loaded with greens and carrots and sprinkled with Calcium without D3. I noticed that he does not eat from the feeding cup and will only eat the crickets when I place them ontop of leaves or a branch. Excellent. He should be getting as many as he can eat in about a 15-20 minute period, 2 times a day. As he gets older, you’ll want to have a rotation of a few different staples feeders along with occasional treats. You could add a little bit more to what you feed your bugs then too. Attaching some graphics below.

Supplements - As of now, it has been Calcium without D3, and yesterday was the first dose of Calcium with D3. No Multivitamins dose yet. Perfect! You’ll want to give the calcium without D3 every feeding except when using a different supplement. The calcium with D3 should be given one feeding every other week and alternated with a good multivitamin which is also used one feeding every other week.

Watering - Auto mister, every 3 hours for 1 minute. That’s a bit too much. It would be much better to mist for at least 2 minutes right before lights go on and off and mid day is optional depending on your needs. Some choose to use a dripper during the day for about 15-20 minutes, but again it’s only if needed. Look to the urate (white part of the poo) to determine. All white or mostly white means he’s well hydrated. A little tip of orange is ok, especially if he hasn’t pooped in a few days.

Fecal - Have not noticed any fecal matter as yet, might also be due to the lack of eating? I would definitely suggest getting a fecal check for parasites when he does poo. That could the problem.

History - We got him from a breeder, with minimal information. We were told that he is a male, 2 months old. Age looks about right.

Cage Type - Full mesh, 18x18x36". This is ok for now, but as he gets older and bigger, he’ll need at least a 2x2x4’ or bigger if you can. Males especially benefit from bigger and use all the space we can give them.

Lighting - UVB: 12 hours from 7am to 7pm. Heat: In intervals as the temperature in Malaysia is pretty high. I can’t tell if you have a T5 or T8 fixture for uvb. While T5 is preferred, a T8 is ok. The difference is what strength bulb you’d need to use and the distance to basking area. I do advise raising the lights at least a couple of inches above the screen top. Little ones love to walk upside down on the top and can very easily get burned. I use little wire baskets from a dollar store to raise my lights. I’m sure you can find something that will work.

 Temperature - Day: 28 to 33°, Night: 25 to 29°. Much too hot both day and night. Babies should be kept cooler than adults at around 26-27c during the day. Night time for all chameleons preferably is below 21-22c. You may not need a basking light at all.

 Humidity - Day: 35 to 60%, Night: 85 to 100%. These are a bit too high. Ideal range during the day is between 30-50%. Reducing the number/frequency of misting will help greatly to bring you down just right. At night unless you can achieve a temperature below at least 21c, you don’t want to boost humidity. High heat plus high humidity increases risks for respiratory infection. Do keep an eye on your little one now for signs of one…keeping his head raised (star gazing), any noises at all when he breathes, thick ropy saliva.

Both temp and humidity are measured with Combo meter by Exoterra. Is that digital or analog? I ask because the analog ones are notoriously inaccurate. Digital ones with probe ends are better.

 Plants - Photos, Hibiscus, Devil's Ivy, Monstera. Excellent! Since very little is jumping out from your husbandry I have to ask if you washed the plants/leaves before using them.

 Placement - Corner of the room, with no direct air-conditioning, windows or much activity. Height of the table is 2.5ft. Good!

Location - Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Cool!
Your husbandry is actually quite good, except for the temps and humidity. The only things that I would suspect based on your info would be parasites or a respiratory infection. Of course, chameleons like all living creatures are susceptible to a variety of ailments. Little ones are particularly fragile and some will just fail to thrive for no apparent reason. Because of that, most breeders will keep them until they’ve reached at least 3-4 months old. I almost wish there was an obvious problem with your husbandry to explain why your baby isn’t eating and is closing his eyes. Definitely a vet visit and soon is your best course of action. Unless I’m missing something, which is possible as I’m quite distracted today. I’m asking another member to just double check all I’ve said just to be safe. @Beman

View attachment 339606View attachment 339607

Thank you so much for the really helpful feedback.
we have decided to switch off the heat bulb as it has been pretty hot these couple of days and will be monitoring the temp.
as for the humidity, we have lessen the intervals to before the lights come on a short burst mid day and the last spray in the evening before lights out. We’ve also put a dripper as suggested.

we will be monitoring the lil one with the changes. And keep you guys updated.

 

[Beppo]

He’s so cute! Welcome to the forums! Best of luck to you and you new baby can’t wait to see updates

 

[Beman]

We are using a T5 linear bulb that is 10.0 instead of 5.0 (due to the whole country not having any stock of 5.0 but we will be able to get the 5.0 by July). The basking area is 12 inches from light > mesh > branch.

So since there are areas where he can get much closer to the UVB I would raise the fixture up off the cage 4 inches. Otherwise in areas that are closer like that plant that sits right below the UVB baby would be in an over exposure level with the 10.0.

 

[Jaza P]

So since there are areas where he can get much closer to the UVB I would raise the fixture up off the cage 4 inches. Otherwise in areas that are closer like that plant that sits right below the UVB baby would be in an over exposure level with the 10.0.

Great, we will get that done today. Thanks loads!

 

[Jaza P]

Hi everyone, I noticed that the lil guy was rubbing his eye on a branch when he was up in the morning and there's a swelling in his right eye. We are arranging for a vet visit at the soonest as its on an appointment basis. Just would like to check what does this look like from your experience?
His droppings don't seem to show that he's dehydrated as it's white/yellowish.
Here are some pics of his eye: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qyon-sTMrLlmA863I_YxZhx_Y3K7d4qU

 

[MissSkittles]

It’s hard to figure out what may be wrong with their little googly eyes. Little man may have gotten a piece of shed or other debris trapped in it, it could be infection, it could be a sinus issue or I don’t even know. Hopefully your vet will be able to figure it out. Do let us know what your vet says about everything.

 

[Jaza P]

It’s hard to figure out what may be wrong with their little googly eyes. Little man may have gotten a piece of shed or other debris trapped in it, it could be infection, it could be a sinus issue or I don’t even know. Hopefully your vet will be able to figure it out. Do let us know what your vet says about everything.

Let's hope lil chapster is fine and dandy, will definitely keep you updated! Thanks again from the very worried mama.

 

[Jaza P]

Heya everyone, lil Chapo's vet visit was a little worrying but with proper care and routine he should be fine and dandy in no time.
The vet mentioned that he is definitely younger than 2 months and not like what the breeder told us. On top of everything else, he was handed over to us not being in the best condition. His eye irritation was due to an infection but nothing major yet as we caught it early.
BUT... it is not impossible to cure him and ensure a long, healthy life ahead for the lil guy.
Soaks every 3 days, eye drops and extra exercise daily. We will be heading to the vet in a weeks time to keep tabs on his progress. Wish us luck! Here's a pic of him showing his temper after the vet.

 

[MissSkittles]

He’s quite thin. Make sure to feed him as much as he wants twice a day for being that young. Wishing for a speedy and uneventful recovery for tiny man.

 

[Jaza P]

He’s quite thin. Make sure to feed him as much as he wants twice a day for being that young. Wishing for a speedy and uneventful recovery for tiny man.

We switched to baby dubias and he seems to be eating more now compared to the crickets. Still not as much as he should, approx 6 to 7 a day.
But yes, let's hope with the exercise he racks up a better appetite.

 

[kinyonga]

Looks like there might be something going on with his left forearm too…can you post a couple more clear photos of it please?

 

[Beman]

I agree with the bone form in the limbs... Looks to be possible MBD.

Also want to note... Anyone else seeing a female and not a male? I do not see any tarsal spurs in those pics.

What did your vet mean by soaks?

Feeders size should be nyphs in dubia... Your looking at the tiny ones 1/4 inch and smaller.