Anybody experienced a jaw abcess in a chameleon before?

[Miss Machine]

My 1,5 year old Quad male has a jaw abcess. I discovered it three days ago.

I noticed a bump on the right jawside. When i touched the the spot, puss came out of the bump. I also noticed that a part of his gums are greenish.

Tomorrow i'm visiting the vet.

Anyone experienced this with his/her cham before?

 

[Hoj]

Can you get a pic. Sounds like mouth rott. A vet visit is a good idea. They will most likely do a culture and sensitivity test and then prescribe an antibiotic and advise frequent cleaning of the area.
It can be a pain but is treatable.

 

[Miss Machine]

Pretty hard to get a pic, Hoj. He wouldn't hold still...

Thanks for your reply. I will post when I get back from the vet..

 

[Miss Machine]

Anybody else knows how this occurs?

A member of the Dutch chameleon society, told me this is a 'common' problem with montane species. It's a pseudomonas-infection due to improper care. To warm, to humid, to dry...etc.

I house my pair in full screen terrarium, average humidity level during day 70% and goes up to 90% about 6 times a day because of automatic mister and fogmachine.

Temps are kept cool. Under heatbulb max. 80 F for up to three hours max a day. Average enclosure temp. is about 72 F or lower in winter. I house them outside as often as I can, also at night. Temperature drop to 50 F.
I let them drink extra trough a syringe, with calciumlactate. I adjusted their dusting schedule for the feeders. I offer them a large variety of foods:
small roaches, spiders, flies, black soldier flies, phoenixworms, butterworms, small hoppers, small crickets, silkworms and occasionally waxworms.

What do you guys think? Is this proper or improper care for montane species? They're my first montane pair of chameleons.

Thanks a lot for any replies!

Wendy

 

[Alexl]

this is a 'common' problem with montane species. It's a pseudomonas-infection due to improper care. To warm, to humid, to dry...etc.

It may be Pseudomonas, but there are lots of other ugly bacteria growing in a chameleon's mouth. They carry around Yersinia, Klebsiella, Escherichia or Citrobacter, too - just for example. So you definitely need to let your vet do a swab to identify the bacteria. Even if 90% of a certain species got abscesses due to Pseudomonas, you will still need a swab to verify your own case. Most infected inflammations do not only cover one single kind of bacteria, but more at the same time. Those need to be identified and each found potencially pathogenic bacteria needs a resistance test to choose right antibiotics. You can't fight all bacteria with same antibiotics and wrong medication can lengthen treatment or worsen the infection.

An abscess has to be split and flushed, maybe not only once (depending on the case). The whole abscess capsule has to be removed, otherwise the wound will not heal as quickly as possible. Eventually your vet wants to take an x-ray to assure there's no infection concerning the jaw bone yet, cause chameleons tend to spreading infections around (and inside) their mouth. But I'm sure your vet already told you about these things .

Reasons for abscesses may be miscellanous, too. Improper care can always be a reason for illness in reptiles, but usually abscesses are caused by lesions (bitten by another lizard, bitten by feeders, injured by cage equipment) or foreign material entering the skin. I'm pretty sure most lesions occuring aren't watched by the owner, cause noone watches his reptiles 24 hours a day. In my opinion, too high or lack of humidity only will worsen an existing problem. Humidity or temperature will enhance the environment for bacteria to grow better. But a completely healthy skin or mouth mucosa won't have problems with bacteria, it has to be damaged in any way before (or the chameleon already has an immunodeficiency due to other circumstances).

I would not recommend to keep quadricornis as pair together in one cage. May work sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Especially now while your male has a problem. Can you post some pictures of cage setup inside your rooms and outside?

 

[Miss Machine]

Thanks for your detailed reply! I really appreciate that!

Went to the vet today. He looked at the jawline and told me that the infection is caused by damage, probably from a feeder. He told me this is the initial stage of a jaw infection. So i am right on time he told me.

He gave me Marbocyl, marbofloxacin, to treat him with. At first he wanted to prescribe Baytrill, but because of his weight, only 85 grams, he gave me the Marbocyl, because that was easier to dose??
A drop a day...for the next 14 days. If there is no improvement after a week, i'm going back to the vet for a more detailed examination of the problems. This is a vet who is also specialised in treating reptiles..

My pair is housed together for up to 6 months now. Thus far, without any problem like stress or aggressiveness. They eat side by side, sleep close to each other, no stress colors or whatever. I have a separate enclosure for the female ready when any problems occur. I also want to keep them separate in the near future to induce breeding. The enclosure measures 24x24x48...

Currently, i have some problems uploading my pictures. I have some ready to post, so you can see their enclosure.

Regards,

Wendy

 

[kinyonga]

Did the vet clean out the access? Did he do a culture and sensitivity test? If not it likely won't heal.

 

[Miss Machine]

Kinyongia, i am not familiar with these kind of tests. Neither do I know that any of the few reptile vets we have here in the Netherlands do these tests? I also never here members of our Dutch chameleon society talk about it..

I am cleaning out the abcess myself with a hydrogen peroxide 1% solution and treat him with the marbofloxacin.

He told me to come back when there is no improvement within 7 days.. Maybe he then suggests to do a test like the above mentioned?

 

[Alexl]

Identification of bacteria via swab, culturing and resistance tests are nothing special, they're done in mammals and birds, too. But they're even more important in reptiles, cause reptiles carry around those potencially pathogenic bacteria all the day as mentioned above. I'm pretty sure even dutch reptile vets know how to do this, at least cause some visit our conferences every year.

Of course, you can try treatment without identifying bacteria or resistance test. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. We have antibiotics working in most cases, but we have increasing resistances, too. Bacterial cultures and resistance tests are more expensive than just a visit with general examination of the chameleon and prescribed drugs. And they take some days 'til first results, so you need to begin with "untested" antibiotics anyway (you would change if necessary as soon as you get the results). If the chameleon is in good condition, you'd have the opportunity to try treatment without tests. I (personally) would always advice to find the exact reason for illness including the methods I already mentioned, just to do it the safest way. But there might be background knowledge of the anamnesis or other reasons and personal experiences to go with another treatment successfully, too.

 

[Miss Machine]

Thanks again for all the info!

We really only have three options when it comes to reptile vets, in the Netherlands. Germany is waaaaaay bigger and better when it comes to information and specialism on animals and sharing that through books for hobbyists. That was also my experience when I was an addicted aquarist. I visited Germany all the time for better shops, better books etc.

I am member of the Dutch Chameleon society for a few years now... and a daily visitor of the forum. Seriously never heard any other members about these tests..but i will definitely mention it when I visit my reptile vet again. He just looked in his mouth. On my initiative, I gave him some fresh stool for a fecal test. But that was really all mentioned in this vet visit.

This is only the third time i visit a reptile vet in my 3 years experience. Once for an eye problem with my veiled. She gave me eyedrops (Polytrim), second time because my meller had a tailnecrosis problem. And this time, because of a bacterial infection with my quad male.

I'm hoping my male with get better with this medication. Otherwise, i will go back and have this test done!

 

[Elgato]

Any updates on the condition of the cham? I've been having a issue with my Jackson as well. I had a culture done and am waiting for results this week. It has been very difficult to get rid of the abcess.

FYI at one point i stopped using my cool mist humidifier and some time later is when the abcess showed its ugly face. I'm assuming low humidity might have caused my abcess....