Scratching eyes and feet. Why?

[Winnie5761]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?Male, veiled, 3-4 months old, pied, purchased 4/20/24
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?He has only been handled for a vet visit and a cage transfer.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?Mainly crickets so far, maybe 2 superworms. Crickets are gutloaded with fresh veggies: yams, Lettuce, carrots, whatever I have a little extra of after making meals. He eats maybe 15-20 medium crickets per day.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?Every feeding is lightly dusted with repti-calcium without D3 and powdered bee pollen. Twice a month with zoo meds reptivite with D3
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?Automatic misting system For 2 minutes 30 minutes prior to lights on and off,1 minute halfway through the night. No fogger yet but can hook one up in a day or two if necessary. Dripper with a glacially slow drip all day. Have only seen him drink when I hand-mist him.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?Fecals seem normal. Dark with white rates. No orange or yellow. Unknown if he was tested for parasites
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Purchased at petco

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions. Screen cage measuring 5'H and 3'H, 3.25'W, 2'D
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Lighting is Automated. UV Bulb is 12hr cycle reptisun T5HO 46" 54W. Heat light is 60 watt Daylight Bulb that turns on 1hr after UVB and stays on for 8hrs. Also a 24" grow light on the one side of the cage for plants.

• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? During the day I am keeping temps low because I'm having an issue with humidity. Today is a good day top of cage temp is 76F with the middle of the cage 68⁰F. Basking temp is 86⁰F. The ambient temp is being measured with 2 digital thermometers/hygrometers. Basking with a digital probe. Nighttime temps are 62⁰F-65%F
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Humidity at the top of the cage is currently 53% middle is 77% at night lower is 99% upper part is 85% As of now I'm only using the mist for humidity. But I do have a fogger that can be hooked up. I also have a dehumidifier on the way.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Almost all live plants. There are a few silk. All cham-safe plants.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Location is right beside my bedroom door. Air conditioner runs nearly 24/7 year round along with an oscillating fan at night. The very top of the cage is about 7ft from the floor

• Location - Where are you geographically located? Central Pennsylvania surrounded by mountains.

I caught Kirt a little while ago with his left eye closed and he's been rubbing both eyes on branches. He is also rubbing both back feet and scratching behind his neck like a dog. He's eating just fine. The usual amount and targeting well. He doesn't appear dehydrated. He did shed about 10 days ago. He was moved into his new cage on Monday. I noticed the rubbing and scratching before moving him. Today was the first his eyes were closed.

 

[MissSkittles]

Can you post some current pics of him please?

 

[Winnie5761]

Can you post some current pics of him please?

 

[MissSkittles]

He’s a cutie! It looks like he’s able to get too close to the lights. If your uvb is sitting directly on top of the screen, that could irritate his eyes. I don’t see anything unusual about on/about him to explain why he’s scratching, like stuck shed. My alarm bell went off when you said he was using his back feet the scratch his neck as often chameleons who have mbd can do a similar movement (due to muscle incoordination) and I see no signs of mbd. His eyes look ‘normal’. The only thing in your husbandry that might be a potential cause of problems is the bee pollen. Some chameleons have shown things such as gular edema when given bee pollen, and although I don’t see any edema, I will advise to stop giving him the bee pollen. I mix bee pollen in when I make Repashy Bug Burger and give that to my feeders so that they are that much healthier and more nutritious. Your humidity is on the high side for daytime. Maybe try limiting the dripper to just 1/2 hour per day. In the morning maybe try giving an extra long misting session so that he has opportunity to clean his eyes. Lastly, but certainly not of lesser importance would be to make an appointment with a vet who is experienced with chameleons. Coming from Petco he could have an infection in his eyes or sinuses, had a prior injury or who even knows. They aren’t known for selling healthy animals or caring for them very well in store. Also do take a fresh poo for a parasite check. I don’t see any vets on our list for PA. Often we have to travel a bit for a good vet. I also found this, which may be of some help to you.

He uses Dr. Achtel at Exeter Veterinary Hospital....north of Philly.

If that’s not in driving distance for you check out these reptile vets in PA and call around to see which one have chameleons experience.
http://thereptilereport.com/pennsylvania-reptile-veterinary-directory/

It’s very possible another member may see something which I have missed and have a better answer for you. @kinyonga has a wealth of knowledge and experience and might see something more.

 

[Winnie5761]

will advise to stop giving him the bee pollen.

I will definitely stop that!

Your humidity is on the high side for daytime.

I've been working on this. I have a fan at the bottom of the cage to try to create a chimney effect and it has helped. The dehumidifier is supposed to be here Tuesday. At night when the humidity increases I keep it much cooler. I run an air conditioner 24/7 and a fan at night to keep temps in my room in the low 60s. I died a few years ago from an asthma attack brought on by high temps with high humidity. Since then I can't withstand room temps of 70⁰+

If your uvb is sitting directly on top of the screen

The UVB is only about an inch above the top of his cage. His branch is positioned so his back is approximately 6" away from the light. I may be able to find a way to raise the UVB fixture another 3.5"-4" if necessary.

Lastly, but certainly not of lesser importance would be to make an appointment with a vet who is experienced with chameleons.

He did have one vet visit because I suspected RI but he was given a clean bill of health.

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions not to mention reviewing my husbandry. I thank you, my grandson thanks you and if he could I'm sure Kirt Cobain the Great Grandcham, would thank you the most!

 

[Beman]

The UVB is only about an inch above the top of his cage. His branch is positioned so his back is approximately 6" away from the light. I may be able to find a way to raise the UVB fixture another 3.5"-4" if necessary.

What is the exact UVB type you are using? T8 or T5HO fixture? What bulb strength is it? It will say it on the end of the bulb. What is the exact type of screen you used? Is it fiberglass window screen or aluminum?

 

[Winnie5761]

What is the exact UVB type you are using? T8 or T5HO fixture? What bulb strength is it? It will say it on the end of the bulb. What is the exact type of screen you used? Is it fiberglass window screen or aluminum?

Lighting is Automated. UV Bulb is 12hr cycle reptisun T5HO 46" 54W. Heat light is 60 watt Daylight Bulb that turns on 1hr after UVB and stays on for 8hrs. Also a 24" grow light on the one side of the cage for plants.
The screen is charcoal aluminum

 

[Beman]

Lighting is Automated. UV Bulb is 12hr cycle reptisun T5HO 46" 54W. Heat light is 60 watt Daylight Bulb that turns on 1hr after UVB and stays on for 8hrs. Also a 24" grow light on the one side of the cage for plants.
The screen is charcoal aluminum

Please look at the reptisun bulb. I need to know if it is a 5.0 or 10.0 bulb strength. With the distance only being 6 to the branch you would be in higher UVI then recommended with a 5.0 but if you are using a 10.0 the cham is in overexposure levels.

 

[Winnie5761]

Please look at the reptisun bulb. I need to know if it is a 5.0 or 10.0 bulb strength. With the distance only being 6 to the branch you would be in higher UVI then recommended with a 5.0 but if you are using a 10.0 the cham is in overexposure levels.

 

[kinyonga]

@MissSkittles said…”My alarm bell went off when you said he was using his back feet the scratch his neck as often chameleons who have mbd can do a similar movement (due to muscle incoordination) and I see no signs of mbd”….exactly my reaction to the behaviour….and I see no signs of MBD either.

I don’t think you can create a chimney effect on a cage that is all screen…assuming that your cage is all screen (no glass or solid walls?)..I can’t tell from your photos for sure.

 

[Winnie5761]

@MissSkittles said…”My alarm bell went off when you said he was using his back feet the scratch his neck as often chameleons who have mbd can do a similar movement (due to muscle incoordination) and I see no signs of mbd”….exactly my reaction to the behaviour….and I see no signs of MBD either.

I don’t think you can create a chimney effect on a cage that is all screen…assuming that your cage is all screen (no glass or solid walls?)..I can’t tell from your photos for sure.

I actually have roll-up blackout blinds mounted on the three open side. I have the side opposite the fan pulled down. I can pull all three in the winter to help with humidity when my house is dryer.

Should I pull the front shade as well to help with the chimney effect?

 

[kinyonga]

The chimney effect only works properly when all sides are closed and there is venting at the bottom of the cage and a screen lid. When closed on all sides, the lights at the top of the cage heat the air, which makes it rise and forces cool air to be drawn in through the vents on the front of the cage at/near the bottom. If there are other openings or areas where the air can get in then it messes this flow up and the chimney effect is lost. Hope I explained it clearly enough.

 

[Beman]

View attachment 355313View attachment 355314

Ok so with your fixture type and screen type you have to have a total of 9 inches between the bottom of the fixture and the branch. Any closer you will put the cham into over exposure levels. So if your branches are closer you need to drop them down.

 

[Winnie5761]

Ok so with your fixture type and screen type you have to have a total of 9 inches between the bottom of the fixture and the branch. Any closer you will put the cham into over exposure levels. So if your branches are closer you need to drop them down.

I will definitely do that. Thank you!

 

[Beman]

I will definitely do that. Thank you!

Now I have a totally separate question. What was living in this cage before the chameleon? Did you thoroughly clean it before setting up the chameleon in it?

 

[Winnie5761]

Now I have a totally separate question. What was living in this cage before the chameleon? Did you thoroughly clean it before setting up the chameleon in it?

Nothing. New construction. Everything wiped down prior to assembly.

 

[Beman]

Nothing. New construction. Everything wiped down prior to assembly.

Did you seal the wood with anything prior to construction?

 

[Winnie5761]

Did you seal the wood with anything prior to construction?

The inside was painted with porch paint to deal with all the moisture. It was painted at least a week before we began assembly.

 

[Beman]

The inside was painted with porch paint to deal with all the moisture. It was painted at least a week before we began assembly.

How long did you actually let the pieces gas off outside before putting the plants or chameleon in? Typically you want to let these gas off for at least 2 weeks. Otherwise the voc's emitted can cause issues for a chameleon. They have very sensitive lungs and bodies.

 

[Winnie5761]

How long did you actually let the pieces gas off outside before putting the plants or chameleon in? Typically you want to let these gas off for at least 2 weeks. Otherwise the voc's emitted can cause issues for a chameleon. They have very sensitive lungs and bodies.

They were all painted and let sit for a little over a week, then another week or so of assembly before anything was put it. It was minimum 18 days from paint to putting plants in then another 2 until Kirt went in. Misting being used on schedule for those 2 days.

We did paint the outside a few days prior but it was a semigloss wall paint.