sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
They are toxic if they eat the leaves of any member of the nightshade family, which includes tomatoe leaves - it has nothing to do with vitamin A though.
What wild caught food is toxic?
- Thread starter smackey
- Start date
They are toxic if they eat the leaves of any member of the nightshade family, which includes tomatoe leaves - it has nothing to do with vitamin A though.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
hm. that's an interesting assertion. are you saying you regularily feed tomatoe leaf gutloaded hornworms to your chameleon without adverse effects?
chameleoman
Avid Member
There was a thread about that, maybe vendors made that rumor up so we could just by their commercial chow there for theyd be making more money and we would be forced to keep buying it in order to keep our insects alive
ASublimeDay
Member
I'm deathly allergic to bees. The idea of trying to pin one and remove its stinger is terrifying.
I would take a great deal of pleasure in feeding off stinger-less wasps. I hate them with a passion.
I would take a great deal of pleasure in feeding off stinger-less wasps. I hate them with a passion.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I would say its far more than just rumour. I've know one person who had a very ill chameleon, attributed to this. Its also commonly stated on this forum, and never before have I have heard anyone contest it.
According to many reliable sources, the leaves of the tomato/nightshade plants are poisonous for animals (including people) - due to the chemical/alkyloids Tomatine and solanine - if injested in quantity.
I personally have never offered wild caught hornworms (not even sure they live naturally where I live, have never seen one in my garden), so I've no personal experience.
I doubt its a rumour started by hornworm breeders/suppliers just to sell chow, since there are plenty of other things you can feed hornworms other than toxic (potentialy?) tomatoe leaves, such as very healthy grape vine leaves.
momsmenagerie
New Member
earthworms?
Can you feed earthworms/night crawlers to a veiled cham?
Can you feed earthworms/night crawlers to a veiled cham?
The main danger with feeding wild-caught insects is parasites. There are many many parasites that can infect wild insects. Grasshoppers and katydids are susceptible to hairworms among other things that could harm your chameleon if ingested. The hairworm is very long and hideous looking and will bust out of the insect upon death (which you wouldn't want happening inside your chammy's stomach).
CLP
New Member
First off, let me say I do not claim any expertise of any kind, and base most of my opinions on what I've read and what makes sense to me. I do not deny the damage that parasites can do, nor that they are likely to be present in some wild caught insects. But is it not possible for parasites to be present in captive reared insects, even at a lower infection percentage? Wouldn't one have to rear their insects in something close to a laboratory setting instead of the garage or utility room like many of us do?
Also, don't most people give their chams outdoor time or even keep them almost entirely outside? Guaranteed then that they are eating some wild insects. And likely that the occasional "wild" insect in your home - i.e. spiders, flies, etc. are making their way into your chams indoor home. I would propose there is no way your cham isn't occasionally eating a "wild" insect. So, are we not just depriving our chams of a more varied diet in the vain attempt to keep a possible parasite from a possibly infected wild caught insect, when the reality is they are eating them in some quantity anyhow? Wouldn't it be more prudent to have regular fecal exams done and give them the variety they crave?
FYI, I have obtained my opinion from the blog of Dr. Ivan Alfonso, DMV. You can see his post here (about 1/4 of the way down the page): http://www.ivanalfonso.com/page/5/
Also, don't most people give their chams outdoor time or even keep them almost entirely outside? Guaranteed then that they are eating some wild insects. And likely that the occasional "wild" insect in your home - i.e. spiders, flies, etc. are making their way into your chams indoor home. I would propose there is no way your cham isn't occasionally eating a "wild" insect. So, are we not just depriving our chams of a more varied diet in the vain attempt to keep a possible parasite from a possibly infected wild caught insect, when the reality is they are eating them in some quantity anyhow? Wouldn't it be more prudent to have regular fecal exams done and give them the variety they crave?
FYI, I have obtained my opinion from the blog of Dr. Ivan Alfonso, DMV. You can see his post here (about 1/4 of the way down the page): http://www.ivanalfonso.com/page/5/
Todnedo
Avid Member
Please list these parasites.
tkilgour
Member
Do you have any scientific evidence of this? Did the FDA tell you this? J/K Regardless, much of the research. from many reliable sources has proven otherwise. It is even wise to keep small children away from the green part of the tomato plant. Research from the University of Illinois, has shown that vines, leaves, and unripe fruit are toxic due to the alkaloids. The alkaloids are known to be poisonous. Some people actually have to use gloves when handling the vine, as it can create a rash on people with sensitive skins. Also avoid eating the roots since it also contains the same alkaloids as the vine. The leaves of the tomato plant contain these alkaloids, and these alkaloids can disrupt the "cholinergic nerves", which are nerves that releases choline. Choline contains quaternary ammonium salts, which are found in animal tissues. Aside from interfering with the operation of these nerves, these alkaloids can also give you gastrointestinal problems if digested. While green tomatoes are a delicacy in different cultures, this unripe fruit contains large amounts of saponins and alkaloids. It is recommended to cook the green tomato to reduce the alkaloids.
Cainschams
New Member
Sorry but there are a lot of spider species that can be fed off. I do it all the time.
Calypso
Member
When ever you get wild caught you always have to think of what type of environment it has been living in. Was it in a pesticide environment? We're they eating or around toxic materials? However bad the feeders are how bad they will effect your cham. Unless you're out and about in an all natural environment I wouldn't risk it.
Todnedo
Avid Member
Is that fact or speculation?
Todnedo
Avid Member
If you feed your feedesr greens from the grocery store you are feeding them more pesticides than any wild caught bug would ever eat!
Calypso
Member
Well, if you're asking if they are around bathroom cleaning supplies after a few got out and you try to use them, then yes they can be extremely toxic. I wouldn't eat off the bathroom floor and wouldn't feed anything with any less standards. I mean, I have always lived in the city so I wouldn't trust anything in the wild when I can smell the crap in the air when it rains. Now on the other hand, my girlfriend is from a small rural town outside of Minneapolis (much different than Houston or Baton Rouge as far as clean environment). If I found stuff on her property I wouldn't have the slightest reservation of feeding to my animals. Shoot, I would eat one of the wild turkey's that wake me up every morning that are just mocking me as delicious looking 30 lb family pets.
tkilgour
Member
That isn't exactly true. If you buy "certified organic" vegetables, then they are free of pesticides and other chemicals.
Oh, and insects can be toxic if they come from lawns that are fertilized 7 x a year with fertilizers and herbicides and then these wc bugs are being fed from their yard.
Last edited:
Todnedo
Avid Member
Rural areas are where most pesticides and herbicides are used because that's where the crops are.
I kept my veiled all spring summer and fall right on a huge Co op Soy bean field and Cornfield in northern OHIO.
I watched the Massive Monsanto machines spray several times this year and these crops grow like weeds without water. Mind you his Cages is huge and made of chicken wire and only 25 yards from these massive FIELDS.
I never fed him once at all this season and he is a beast. So in hand im not to worried about pesticides to much . I did cover his cage on spray days when possible. I live next to cows and fields upon fields that have been sprayed for decades plus probably.
Point Being my Veiled thrived better than ever eating large hoppers and wood bees and any other insect under the sun. I even seen small birds in his cage.
I watched the Massive Monsanto machines spray several times this year and these crops grow like weeds without water. Mind you his Cages is huge and made of chicken wire and only 25 yards from these massive FIELDS.
I never fed him once at all this season and he is a beast. So in hand im not to worried about pesticides to much . I did cover his cage on spray days when possible. I live next to cows and fields upon fields that have been sprayed for decades plus probably.
Point Being my Veiled thrived better than ever eating large hoppers and wood bees and any other insect under the sun. I even seen small birds in his cage.
Last edited:
