Question for everyone

T

tkalawart

New Member
Quick question for everyone.
I recently bought a panther from an online source (he"ll b here wednesday)that would be considered a more premium brand (Kammers or screameleons* rather not specify)Then I looked on other sights and some have sires that are similarley impressive for almost half the price. I don't have buyers remorse but are my concerns rational? Just looking for input I suppose. Am I paying extra for the brand name and is there a reasonable difference?
 
Pricing isn't just on how "famous" the breeder is.


Locale. Genetics (pure or cross?). Age. Sex. Overall market demand.


all affect the price...


for example:

A male BB ambilobe with a gorgeous sire may sell for $200 when he is 2-3 months old and his colors haven't come in yet. When that same male grows up, and his colors do come in, his price will likely increase to 300-400. Part of this reason is that when you buy a baby you can only guess that he will look like the sire but when you buy the juvenile with colors, you know exactly what you are getting. This is of course, one of many factors and an oversimplified example.
 
I've paid half of what most people pay for baby panthers for my baby panthers and people have continuously told me they just drool over them, they are so handsome. There are reputable breeders that don't charge as much, just like there are reputable breeders that charge premium for crosses while others charge $100. So, it depends how you feel. Many will say that you get what you pay for, which is true, but among reputable breeders, if you save a few bucks you probably won't be disappointed at all with the animal you get.
 
Will since you even specified one of the two.. I will say this. I absolutley love Kammerflage Kreations, Ed and Liddy are wonderful people who know what they're doing to an extent I could only dream of. They have top of the line quality chameleons, they are responsible breeders, and they care about their animals and their customers. They are nothing but helpful. As pricing goes, you get what you pay for, plain and simple. Price varies due to many factors including but not limited to; locale, availability, demand, genetics, age, temperment, etc., etc., and so on and so on. The longer a breeder takes care of a chameleon the more likely he/she is to raise the price, I mean these people put endless amounts of blood, sweat, tears, work, time, and money into these beautiful creatures... Speaks for itself really. ;)
 
And as far as Screameleons I don't have any personal experience with their animals but I do know they are also very knowledgable, helpful, and reputable.
 
Depends on the age of the chameleon. IMO.

If you paid over 300$ for a chameleon under 5 months old, I think you're crazy. $100-$300 is fair for a cham under 4 months, 4-5+ and they can be from $$350-$700.

If you got pics of the cham you selected fired up and at rest, then you got your money's worth.

It's strange in the cham hobby, people will buy based on the parents without seeing a pic of the actual cham they are buying. Makes little sense to me....for $300+ you'd think a pic would be small favor to ask for from a breeder....

I have been disappointed in the past when I have bought online without seeing an individual picture first, and I spent over $1000 on a pair of Mitsio. In hindsight, I would have waited to find an adult I liked for that kind of money. Great bloodlines, but the male was not nearly even a tiny bit close as spectacular as the father.

If it is a reputable breeder, and you've seen pics of their offspring from other clutches, then your odds are a lot better.
 
Zen Reptiles said:
Depends on the age of the chameleon. IMO.

If you paid over 300$ for a chameleon under 5 months old, I think you're crazy. $100-$300 is fair for a cham under 4 months, 4-5+ and they can be from $$350-$700.

If you got pics of the cham you selected fired up and at rest, then you got your money's worth.

It's strange in the cham hobby, people will buy based on the parents without seeing a pic of the actual cham they are buying. Makes little sense to me....for $300+ you'd think a pic would be small favor to ask for from a breeder....

I have been disappointed in the past when I have bought online without seeing an individual picture first, and I spent over $1000 on a pair of Mitsio. In hindsight, I would have waited to find an adult I liked for that kind of money. Great bloodlines, but the male was not nearly even a tiny bit close as spectacular as the father.

If it is a reputable breeder, and you've seen pics of their offspring from other clutches, then your odds are a lot better.
Click to expand...

He is 5 months and I did see a picture of him at 3 months. He looked great and I felt good about it then and still do. I spoke to Screameleons sometime last year and actually felt like they were a little rude to me but it could have been the person who answered the phone was having a bad day. Anyway I steered in Kammers direction. Everyone talks to highly of them and they were so nice. The Sire was Blue Blaze.
 
In the captive bred reptile market, you will always pay much more when you purchase from a "name brand" breeder. Doesn't matter if it is lizards or snakes it is the same.

But here is what you get for your money-

You get an animal that you have much more confidence in.
You know that when it arrives it is much more likely to be well started, thriving, looking good. Is much less likely to have been the inbred result of some random bedroom breeder having gone to the nearest reptile show to buy his brother/sister pair off of some other bedroom breeder's brother/sister pair of parents.

You have much more confidence that the animal has been looked after by a full time professional who has many years of experience and actually knows what they are looking at when they are caring for their animals, including the one you just purchased.

That's what it really boils down to- you pay more to greatly improve your odds of being successful with a well started, healthy animal that isn't going to give you problems. You pay for the knowledge that you can get good advise from someone who has been successful over years and generations. You pay for full-time professional care for your animal prior to your purchase. You pay for solid genetics in the parents of your animal.

I've purchased from Kammers a few times in the past and I've made good and not so good purchases from other lesser known breeders. With the Kammers the purchase was a little hard on my budget, but I don't regret it because I *always* got thriving animals that looked terrific and just took off and thrived for me here.

Look around at the free market- doesn't matter if it is a television, a meal at a restaurant, piano lessons, a computer- there is always a big price difference, quality difference, benefit difference in anything you want to buy... You can always find good bargain deals, you can always pay for peace of mind, and you can always find something cheap.
 
Perhaps a tiny bit unrelated but it's worth mentioning. Price does not always equate to quality, in any market. You can't assume that the higher the price tag, the higher the quality - out there be thieves and scammers!

I don't mind saying that I paid $700 for each of my pure-bred Shetland sheepdogs, from champion lines and excellent, healthy genetics. I wasn't going to show or breed so I don't care that they could be champion dogs, but I care that this breeder has an impeccable record of the health in her lines, from eye issues to hip and skin issues, she hasn't bred a single dog that has anything at all as far as possible genetic problems. She even told me that if any of mine ever develop anything that is genetic in origin to tell her so she can pull the parents from her breeding programs. The oldest is only 4, but so far, not a single health issue of any type, not even allergies.

On the other end. I've met a dozen Sheltie owners at dog parks that have a dog that, honestly, doesn't look as nice and, they tell me, is just teaming with health issues. When they ask me where I got mine and how much I paid they are horrified because they may have paid $1,400 for the same breed at a puppy store and gotten a dog that has anything from a dozen allergies to seizures. But they get conned at these puppy boutiques and mall stores that these dogs are the best, they come from AKC parents at a loving breeder's home - when we all know they are puppy mill dogs, no question about it.

So to digress, you see the same scams and lies with reptiles. How many times have we had a member pay $1000 for two rare locales and then come here to discover we think they have Ambilobes, or crosses? When making any purchase, it is the buyers responsibility to research the seller and their company. Just because it's expensive doesn't mean you're getting what you want. So paying $300-500 to the Kammers works out because you get all the love and dedication that Flux was talking about. But pay $500 to someone with bad intentions and that Faly you think you just bought may turn out to be anything but.

Just a word of caution! :) I've seen a couple scams recently, with reptiles and outside of them.
 
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