O'Shaughnessy's Chameleon Breeding

[ChamMan7]

I have no problem with the species being exported. The assessments say this species is stable enough to handle limited export.

My issue is this is a very difficult species to work with. With the limited numbers of animals that will be exported the very few animals that will arrive in the US would be best off in the hands of very experienced keepers. I am in no way trying to slam the person who started the post. As described it is their job to care for them. They are not their personal animals.

Chances of these animals getting past 6 months in captivity are slim to none if the keepers need to ask questions like is it a egg layer of does it give live birth.

Carl

This is more what I mean.. if it is safe to export (numbers wise I mean) that is great; however, the people making me he decision as to whether or not they are safe to export are not taking into account the difficulty of breeding these animals in captivity. These are not "pets". As you said, the chances of them lasting in captivity are slim to none, so why take them out of a stable situation in the wild to hurt their numbers in captivity.

 

[CarlC]

This is more what I mean.. if it is safe to export (numbers wise I mean) that is great; however, the people making me he decision as to whether or not they are safe to export are not taking into account the difficulty of breeding these animals in captivity. These are not "pets". As you said, the chances of them lasting in captivity are slim to none, so why take them out of a stable situation in the wild to hurt their numbers in captivity.

Believe me the people doing these assessments are more then knowledgable. Some of them keep chameleons themselves. Their job has nothing to do with how they do or don't do in captivity. The assessments are used to determine the species status in the wild only. Based on their assessments CITES determines, based on the status, if they will be allowed for export.

What I said was these species are doomed if they are not in the proper hands. Without a doubt there are many capable people with the knowledge and dedication to care for these lesser known species. They are not impossible to keep and they won't be impossible to breed.

If your looking for a nice display animal for your living room forget about any of the species that will be available soon. Stick with pardalis if you want a pet.

Carl

 

[ChamMan7]

Believe me the people doing these assessments are more then knowledgable. Some of them keep chameleons themselves. Their job has nothing to do with how they do or don't do in captivity. The assessments are used to determine the species status in the wild only. Based on their assessments CITES determines, based on the status, if they will be allowed for export.

What I said was these species are doomed if they are not in the proper hands. Without a doubt there are many capable people with the knowledge and dedication to care for these lesser known species. They are not impossible to keep and they won't be impossible to breed.

If your looking for a nice display animal for your living room forget about any of the species that will be available soon. Stick with pardalis if you want a pet.

Carl

I'm not sure if you know that I am agreeing with what you're saying. Not arguing about it. I know that they are knowledgeable I just wish that it was taken into account more. They aren't impossible, you're right, but a large number of them are going into the hands of those that don't necessarily know how to deal with them.

This has nothing to do with the OP, either, BTW. Just a little more discussion about what's going on.

 

[TheCoop]

Has only been 5 days, stunning animals.. Great feeders as well.

 

[TheCoop]

On a side note.. My pair are housed in individual 24"x24"x48" home made enclosures.. I wont even make an attempt at introducing the two until the 4-6 month point.. Taking weekly weights as well as monitoring food intake daile.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Has only been 5 days, stunning animals.. Great feeders as well.

Have is only been five days since they were imported? Maybe it's the photo, but that one looks a little dehydrated to me, which is normal for animals that are imported. I know nothing about this species, where it comes from, it's natural habitat but I would be getting those misters on for long periods of time.

 

[TheCoop]

19 days in country, acclimation in a strange thing.. Male recieved 0.010cc oral B-Complex vitamins yesterday evening/Female 0.06cc. Water/Drip and misting "warm 30 minute shower as well". Water has been pretty much ignored until this morning, 4 pont 32oz drip cup with RO water was accepted which was great to see. Both readily accept Crickets, Wax Worms, Super Worms as well as Calci Worms. Almost forgot, running a rigged Ultrasonic Cool Air Humidifier plumbed to each enclosure for 3-4 hours per day..

 

[Blang]

Here's a picture of my male! Mine is young but seem to acclimate to captivity better than WC panther chameleons! I'm not an expert but just my observation! Mine ate from the first day I got him & I'm getting a female in 2 weeks!

 

[TheCoop]

I might be a new member of the forum, i have over 20 years of Chameleon keeping experience. Was also an old member of CIN as well as Adcham.

 

[TheCoop]

Blang, please pm me.. I would like to keep in contact. Brad

 

[Blang]

Blang, please pm me.. I would like to keep in contact. Brad

Pm sent!

 

[Solargreenjake]

Iucn

IUCN Red List Vulnerable species...... Sounds interesting how one of those animals can pop up in captivity......

 

[TheCoop]

Really? They were CITES quota animals, very limited numbers with documentation were exported. Parsonii came in as well.. I would not suggest a novice purchase these, the hefty price tag helps as well .

 

[guanagator]

IUCN Red List Vulnerable species...... Sounds interesting how one of those animals can pop up in captivity......

More are being advertised as available in the next import with a few for sale currently. Status must have changed. I'm curious about them but cautious to buy an import, hope you guys can keep us updated. Fascinating looking animals, good luck with them.

 

[TheCoop]

I would agree 100% wc are fragile! I have wc protocols i go through for a minimum of 4 months during that acclimation process.. I have been very lucky over the years..

 

[Blang]

I check all my animals by fecal float so I'm sure I know what's going on with a specific animal!

 

[nick barta]

I might be a new member of the forum, i have over 20 years of Chameleon keeping experience. Was also an old member of CIN as well as Adcham.

Brad,

You and I may have crossed paths if you were in the Seattle area back in the CIN days, I was active in the CIN, and sold a bunch of WC Quads and Montiums back then.
I am in Puyallup now, welcome to the Forum!

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[Action Jackson]

Nice animals guys. There have been some very nice O's imported lately. I would like to work with them but have no room.

 

[Chris Anderson]

IUCN Red List Vulnerable species...... Sounds interesting how one of those animals can pop up in captivity......

Really? They were CITES quota animals, very limited numbers with documentation were exported. Parsonii came in as well.. I would not suggest a novice purchase these, the hefty price tag helps as well .

More are being advertised as available in the next import with a few for sale currently. Status must have changed. I'm curious about them but cautious to buy an import, hope you guys can keep us updated. Fascinating looking animals, good luck with them.

Nope, status hasn't changed. They were first assessed for the IUCN Red List in 2011 as Vulnerable and have not been reassessed since. The new (2014-present) CITES quotas from Madagascar were based on the IUCN Red List Assessments. Of the species that were issued new quotas, Vulnerable species were given the most conservative quotas. Anything listed higher (Endangered or Critically Endangered) were not issued a quota. Species listed lower (Near Threatened or Least Concern) were issued sequentially larger quotas.

Chris

 

[guanagator]

Nope, status hasn't changed. They were first assessed for the IUCN Red List in 2011 as Vulnerable and have not been reassessed since. The new (2014-present) CITES quotas from Madagascar were based on the IUCN Red List Assessments. Of the species that were issued new quotas, Vulnerable species were given the most conservative quotas. Anything listed higher (Endangered or Critically Endangered) were not issued a quota. Species listed lower (Near Threatened or Least Concern) were issued sequentially larger quotas.

Chris

Thanks for clarifying.