New Owner, Concern on color

[werevoulf]

Hello friends! I have a concern I wanted some feedback on.

I have a 10 month old male panther chameleon and lately he's been very very pale. He is sometimes very active, and other days (like the past two) has been lethargic. This seems to happen on and off. On the busy days he is all over and eats a good deal, on his lethargic days I don't see him move to his basking spot or really eat at all, and he lounges in more hidden places with his head resting. I know that panther chameleons sometimes go through weird colour periods, where they are more faded than other times but are fine, so I wanted to just get your input on that and if he is just having a muted period as well as if his active to less active habits are okay?

Here is a picture of him, he's a little mad I was getting in there but he's getting ready to sleep. These are his usual colours lately though when he is not dark and basking.

And here is all of my setup/etc information:

• Handling - Minimum to none, have handled him 4 times since I got him in April.
• Feeding-
  • BSFL, fed on the feed given with them in the container, I feed him the flies here and there as they hatch.
  • Crickets, fed on Repashy Superload, calcium watering gel, a mixture of fresh kale, bokchoy, sweet potato, apple, collard greens and bee pollen. I dust them all with bee pollen and Flukers calcium without d3 every feeding and twice a month with Repashy Calcium Plus LoD.
  • He eats sort of inconsistently, some days he will eat everything 10-20 ish BSFL, and 4 to 6 crickets, some days he only eats a few crickets, some days I don't catch him eating at all. He prefers to catch his food free range so it's hard to check sometimes. He's been eating from the cup less lately.
  • He gets treats of superworms a couple times a week, they eat sweet potato and the same greens the crickets get.
• Supplements - Repashy Calcium plus LoD (twice a month) and Flukers calcium without d3, daily. Bee pollen, daily.
• Watering -
  • Misting 8:05am, 5min
  • Misting 9:30am, 2min
  • Misting 10:30am, 1min
  • Misting 8:05pm 5min
  • Fogger starts a little after final mist and it runs all night, turning off at 8am
• Fecal Description - Seemed normal, dark, soft but not wet, keeps its shape, white urate. I find them maybe once a week?
• History - Had him since April, he's faded in color since, has very active days followed by lethargic days. Very new to him.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Dragon ledges cage, 2x2x4 feet, screen sides, door, pvc back
• Lighting - Arcadia 34W LED Bar, Arcadia Reptile Pro T5 UVB D3+ Forest 6%UV-B 24inch, 100W basking bulb and ceramic heater in dual dish
• Temperature - 60-70 F gradient in cage from bottom up with basking at 84-90 gradient, seems like his temp up there is usually around 86 when I use the temp gun on him. 60F at night
• Humidity -
  • Day 50-55%
  • Night gradient of 70+, higher closer to foggers he tends to sleep around their nozzles in there
• Plants - 3 live brazilian pothos, 1 live schefflera, 1 live calathea
• Placement - Living room, very large open room with windows. His enclosure faces away from the main windows and is blocked on the side closest with a tall hibiscus tree. Not usually too loud or busy, once a week we might have company over that sit at a dining room table nearby.
• Location - Providence, RI
• Notes -
  • Roommate needs the AC on a lot so I have extra heating and water here to combat that.
  • Also, recently we used safe nematodes to deal with a rather difficult fungus gnat problem, the sort that can only swim/dig down in plant soil, eat the larvae, and then die off.
• Here are images of his enclosure:
• 
• 

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. I see a couple of things that could be tweaked, but from initial glance nothing is jumping out at me. Give me a minute and I’ll go thru completely.

 

[MissSkittles]

• Handling - Minimum to none, have handled him 4 times since I got him in April. Ok
• Feeding-
  • BSFL, fed on the feed given with them in the container, I feed him the flies here and there as they hatch. Ok
  • Crickets, fed on Repashy Superload, calcium watering gel, This I would change. Sometimes the superload is too much. Just the plain Repashy Bug Burger is enough plus your fresh veggies. No need to have calcium water gel - use plain or really none. Insects can get enough hydration from their food. a mixture of fresh kale, bokchoy, sweet potato, apple, collard greens and bee pollen. I dust them all with bee pollen Bee pollen is amazing, but for chams we can easily overdo it. If you are giving it to your insect feeders, that is sufficient. and Flukers calcium without d3 every feeding and twice a month with Repashy Calcium Plus LoD. These are good. I would suggest adding more variety of feeders, both as staples and treats. Adding some graphics below.
  • He eats sort of inconsistently, some days he will eat everything 10-20 ish BSFL, and 4 to 6 crickets, some days he only eats a few crickets, some days I don't catch him eating at all. He prefers to catch his food free range so it's hard to check sometimes. He's been eating from the cup less lately. Panthers are pretty good at self regulating their eating and he’s about at the age where you could reduce his feedings to every other day and smaller quantities.
  • He gets treats of superworms a couple times a week, they eat sweet potato and the same greens the crickets get. Oops - my bad. You could also add different treats for more variety.
• Supplements - Repashy Calcium plus LoD (twice a month) and Flukers calcium without d3, daily. Bee pollen, daily. See above about the bee pollen
• Watering-
  • Misting 8:05am, 5min
  • Misting 9:30am, 2min
  • Misting 10:30am, 1min
  • Misting 8:05pm 5min This is a lot of misting! You could cut the 9:30 and 10:30 mistings and just do the 5 minute mistings at lights on/off. If he needs the hydration, you could do a quick 1 minute misting mid day.
  • Fogger starts a little after final mist and it runs all night, turning off at 8am What are your night time temps? Hopefully they’re at least 70 or below. Heat plus high humidity increases risk for respiratory infection.
• Fecal Description - Seemed normal, dark, soft but not wet, keeps its shape, white urate. I find them maybe once a week?
• History - Had him since April, he's faded in color since, has very active days followed by lethargic days. Very new to him. Some chams can/will fade in color for a few months but he shouldn’t be lethargic. Taking him to a good vet with experience with chams is a good idea. Take a fresh fecal to check for parasites and maybe have some labs done just to make sure all is within normal limits.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Dragon ledges cage, 2x2x4 feet, screen sides, door, pvc back Ok
• Lighting - Arcadia 34W LED Bar, Arcadia Reptile Pro T5 UVB D3+ Forest 6%UV-B 24inch, 100W basking bulb and ceramic heater in dual dish Why the ceramic heater? Unless your night temps are getting really low, like into or below the 50’s, he’ll be fine.
• Temperature - 60-70 F gradient in cage from bottom up with basking at 84-90 gradient, seems like his temp up there is usually around 86 I like to keep my boys basking temp around 85 when I use the temp gun on him. 60F at night Excellent
• Humidity-
  • Day 50-55% Good
  • Night gradient of 70+, higher closer to foggers he tends to sleep around their nozzles in there Good
• Plants - 3 live brazilian pothos, 1 live schefflera, 1 live calathea Good
• Placement - Living room, very large open room with windows. His enclosure faces away from the main windows and is blocked on the side closest with a tall hibiscus tree. Not usually too loud or busy, once a week we might have company over that sit at a dining room table nearby. Good. Love that window btw.
• Location - Providence, RI
• Notes-
  • Roommate needs the AC on a lot so I have extra heating and water here to combat that. Ok
  • Also, recently we used safe nematodes to deal with a rather difficult fungus gnat problem, the sort that can only swim/dig down in plant soil, eat the larvae, and then die off. Cool
• Unless I’m missing something, there really isn’t anything to explain his lethargy. Maybe parasites? Maybe the excess bee pollen isn’t agreeing with him? You could try making the few changes I suggest and see how he does, but still make a vet appointment. Maybe another member will see something that I don’t. Wish I could be of more help.
• 
  

 

[MissSkittles]

Not long after I got my guy, he started to fade. He had some health issues when I got him, so I had thought it may had been related to that. For maybe at least 3-4 months he just kept getting paler. The 1st pic is at his palest. The 2nd is just 9 days later and his color just popped back. The last pic is 2 months later - he was coming into his full beauty.

 

[elizaann2]

@MissSkittles gave you some great advice. I just wanted to chime in. My boy was doing a similar thing, he was lethargic for a day then active, or lethargic for a few days then active. Then the lethargy got worse and worse. He actually had a nasty parasite and that was what was going on. I’d highly recommended getting him tested.

For my boy it took 3 fecal tests before we found the parasite. It’s a lot of money to spend on poop but if you don’t know what else could be wrong it’s worth it.

 

[CCT Reptiles]

Along with what everyone else said the color could be due to a “winter” funk as for the lethargy that could be a multitude of things I’d definitely get a fecal done if you’re really concerned

 

[werevoulf]

@MissSkittles Thank you so much for going through everything for me!! That was so sweet and I will definitely make some changes.

It's been hard figuring out the best like, bugs to keep and have for just a single chameleon? How to keep those small amounts (best containers for small amounts and all that), where to get them. Hornworns grow so fast??? House flies never hatch right??? Or when you need them???? I just get like 20 popping outta pupae at a time and they can't fly and I'm like WHAT DO IT DO WITH ALL THESE FLIES. So I really would like to get variety in there. I was feeding him silkworms too but they're sorta hard to get and expensive? Roaches also seem like a good idea but I'm nervous about how to keep them.

They can eat snails??? Where do I even get those specific snails and stick bugs hahaha. He really seems to like superworms though, and did like hornworms but they just grow so damn fast and I can't give them to him every day right?

As for all the misting, I had it reduced before but my roommate seriously keeps it like, 65-67 in here and the AC really dries out the air. It almost means at night it can get *very* cold in there, reduces to mid to high 50s sometimes with the AC going and all the moisture. The ceramic at the top was a means to help with that. I could try going with out it though and see what the temps are again at night.

Hehe and ty, I love my windows too, they actually go along two huge walls like that, so much nice light.

@elizaann2 Yes, like MissSkittles said too about the vet, I scheduled him something today. Can't get in until mid October but they said I can bring a stool sample in any time and that they have emergency appts if something happens!

@CCT Reptiles Yeah! The stool sample seems like a good idea. But also he doesn't seem... bad? It's rough because chameleons are so inbetween sometimes, it's taking a bit to get to know him. Getting the fecal sample is probably my best bet if for the most part everything else looks good/husbandry is good. A parasite could be the reason.

 

[MissSkittles]

A couple of the forum sponsors sell variety packs of feeders, which is a great option for when you have just one or two animals. There’s this one and I picked for baby chameleon as it’s better to have feeders be too small than too big. https://dubiaroaches.com/products/baby-chameleon-variety-pack And this one, which I think you can customize. https://www.rainbowmealworms.net/chameleon-sampler-pack/ Non sponsor places that also offer variety packs are Josh’s frogs and http://www.lindasgonebuggie.com/ I think probably most of us have been of the same feeling about roaches. However, dubia really aren’t like the nasty pest roaches we’re all familiar with. They don’t climb smooth sides or fly (even though adults do have wings) and are so much cleaner and nicer than crickets. I have discoid which are very similar. Even though I don’t need to worry about them escaping their tall smooth sided bins, I do use bins with gasket seals and have added screen to the top for ventilation. I worry more about the palmetto bugs getting in my house than my discoid escaping.

 

[Gloriawood]

@MissSkittles Thank you so much for going through everything for me!! That was so sweet and I will definitely make some changes.

It's been hard figuring out the best like, bugs to keep and have for just a single chameleon? How to keep those small amounts (best containers for small amounts and all that), where to get them. Hornworns grow so fast??? House flies never hatch right??? Or when you need them???? I just get like 20 popping outta pupae at a time and they can't fly and I'm like WHAT DO IT DO WITH ALL THESE FLIES. So I really would like to get variety in there. I was feeding him silkworms too but they're sorta hard to get and expensive? Roaches also seem like a good idea but I'm nervous about how to keep them.

They can eat snails??? Where do I even get those specific snails and stick bugs hahaha. He really seems to like superworms though, and did like hornworms but they just grow so damn fast and I can't give them to him every day right?

As for all the misting, I had it reduced before but my roommate seriously keeps it like, 65-67 in here and the AC really dries out the air. It almost means at night it can get *very* cold in there, reduces to mid to high 50s sometimes with the AC going and all the moisture. The ceramic at the top was a means to help with that. I could try going with out it though and see what the temps are again at night.

Hehe and ty, I love my windows too, they actually go along two huge walls like that, so much nice light.

@elizaann2 Yes, like MissSkittles said too about the vet, I scheduled him something today. Can't get in until mid October but they said I can bring a stool sample in any time and that they have emergency appts if something happens!

@CCT Reptiles Yeah! The stool sample seems like a good idea. But also he doesn't seem... bad? It's rough because chameleons are so inbetween sometimes, it's taking a bit to get to know him. Getting the fecal sample is probably my best bet if for the most part everything else looks good/husbandry is good. A parasite could be the reason.

I LOVE dubiaroaches.com for my feeders. Missskittles recommended them to me when I first got here. Actually just got an order from them today and was pleasantly surprised to see they included a free container of BSFL I use dubia roaches as my main staple and rotate out BSFL (he’s not as crazy about them) wax worms and hornworms.

I also only have one chameleon. For me the dubia work best because they don’t grow so fast, live quite a while, don’t smell and I can order just 25 at a time.

 

[elizaann2]

Lol welcome to the wonderful world of chameleons I get my bugs from dubia.com. Start with just two types of bugs, learn about their needs and care and how to gut load. Most feeders (not crickets) can stay in the containers they shipped in so no rush moving them into their own bins until you have done your research and feel ready.