Teal Beauty
Avid Member
Many of you will read this post and continue to scroll on by. Some of you, truly knowing us and attempting to understand our situation may empathize, while others may still not care to even give it a second thought, but I sure hope you do! This is a very serious situation and has had a big impact on a lot of people – and until you have been publicly tried and crucified (and that is our perspective on what happened by a select group of forum members), and we pray you never are, you will never fully understand what we have been going through. It has taken us some time to process everything that has taken place to gather our thoughts in an organized fashion.
Many of you may have already been made aware of what we are about to share. There has been a very negative, heated and emotionally charged situation unfolding here on Chameleon Forums regarding a transaction that took place between us and another member. As you know Nuts Over Chameleons has offered a 10 Day Health Guarantee for all chameleons we sell, this being one of the longest health guarantees offered by any reputable chameleon breeder. In addition, we have provided 24/7 customer support and have never sent a chameleon off without a follow up as to how he/she is adjusting. Those of you who have received chameleons from us also know that you have received updates throughout the entire process (from the day you select the chameleon you want, including the day your chameleon is shipped up until the day that chameleon arrives in your care).
On June 25th we sent a chameleon off to a customer and that customer received the chameleon on June 26th. That customer was very pleased with the chameleon received and even voluntarily posted an unpacking video which clearly illustrated their excitement! We have that video and excerpts from all communication received, but in order to preserve the dignity of our customer, will not be publicly sharing those here at this time or any further time unless made to do so. We will however share only that which has been made public by this individual while still respectfully removing identifiers and names. Please do note the lapse of time mentioned by the customer in the one publicly shared communication.
We have decided to respond with this thread, not to bring any harm about , but for the sole purpose of helping to clear our name of any wrong doing (whether willfully or unknowingly). In addition we feel compelled to share a bit more information about Coccidia. We feel that there is quite a lot of info out and available on this parasite but still not enough on life cycle, acquisition and pathophysiology related to chameleons. On day 15 (5 days beyond our health guarantee) the above mentioned customer notified us that their chameleon tested positive for the parasite Coccidia. What we do know for certain, is that Coccidia is highly contagious between reptiles. In fact, as with Bearded Dragons, it is quite common for chameleons to carry low numbers of Coccidia oocysts in their GI system and that either reptile, can be completely asymptomatic with these low numbers. These numbers may be low enough that they go undetected and if detected, low enough and in the absence of symptoms, treatment is not warranted. We also know that major stressors can cause an otherwise undetectable case of Coccidia to flare up to where levels are detectable and in some cases, exacerbated to a degree that symptoms present and serious illness results. With Bearded Dragons, it is recommended that fecal samples are not collected and tested until the animal has adequately had time to adjust to their new environment. What has been observed is that Coccidia oocysts increase during the stressful transitional phase and then once the animal has adjusted (assuming that their new environment is suited for their needs), their immune system kicks into high gear and the number of oocysts decline without any visible symptoms or harm to the animal. Another gray area is how long it takes for the oocysts to present in the stool of the exposed chameleon. In mice, this can occur as soon as 2 to 3 days after exposure. In chameleons, there is still a lack of available research in this area. We also know that certain food sources are more susceptible to spreading this parasite to chameleons (if contaminated) but that does not make all other food sources immune to the possibility. Just because the risk may be less, and just because we are confident in our husbandry and where we receive and how we keep our feeders, as well as have confidence in our quarantine routine and follow strict protocol, does not mean that it cannot be lurking and lying in wait.
Well now, given all of the above information, you can imagine the dilemma at hand. You may now be asking, what it is that we are doing on our side to ensure that we are able to continue to provide healthy animals to our customers. Our response first and foremost, is to conduct a thorough quarantine of possibly infected animals and perform fecal exams. WE ARE REASSURED IN THAT TO DATE, WE HAVE NO SIGNS/SYMPTOMS, OR POSITIVE RESULTS THAT COULD INDICATE THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH COCIDIA IN HOUSE. We always encourage customers to seek veterinary exams and have regular fecals performed, and NEVER have we had a customer return with a positive fecal for any parasite. But due to the seriousness of this condition, never mind the accusations, we will be following a meticulous and methodical in-house evaluation of our collection. We will be revising our policies and guarantees and offering incentives for responsible chameleon ownership within our customers. More information will be shared at a later time as a lot of investigation and processing must take place.
Those of you who have come to know us and trust us, know that we pride ourselves in setting the bar high for healthy chameleons. No stone will be left unturned! We will be thorough, we will be transparent, and we will post updates as information becomes available.
As chameleon keepers and hobbyists, please take from the sharing of this experience the following: (1) Quarantine ALL newly acquired chameleons regardless of where or who you received them from (no breeder/seller regardless of how reputable is above a hidden disease). (2) Pre-arrange your first vet exam before the arrival of your chameleon and inquire with your reptile veterinarian as to when an appropriate time would be to conduct your first fecal in the absence of symptoms or adequate stool availability at time of visit. We recommend that should you desire that extra peace of mind, you collect a stool sample as early on as possible. (3) Be vigilant in what you expose your chameleon to during their quarantine. Isolate and do not free-range your chameleon where they can be at risk for potential stress and further contamination while adjusting to their new environment. (4) And finally, never be afraid to ask questions of your breeder. A good breeder will be eager to address your concerns. Allow your breeder/seller guarantee to protect you and be forthcoming with ANY and ALL developments during that time.
On a more personal note, I would like to reiterate, that Nuts Over Chameleons is a family business! We are ALL equally invested in time, love and care of our chameleons and each play different roles in maintaining our chameleons and handling business matters! It is a TEAM effort, so please never be offended when we respond as such. Truth be told, it has never gotten easy to sell a chameleon and the ONLY comfort that we receive out of each rehoming is the comfort from knowing that our chameleon/(s) are finding a good home! Those who have purchased from us, know that it is not a quick process. There are many questions asked and many suggestions made before a chameleon leaves our hands. As for me, Jessica, you will not see my hands in any of the pictures taken the day a chameleon is packaged and shipped, due to the fact that it is my recognized weakness as a result of my attachment. So please, do not think for a second, that receiving the news of a loss under the above mentioned circumstances is anything less than devastating to our team. It will take quite some time for us to be able to move beyond this experience as well.
Upon finishing our lengthy response, if you were a customer of ours and feel compelled to share your positive experience below, it would be greatly appreciated. If for any reason you feel that your experience with our company was anything less than exceptional, please drop us a personal message and let us engage in a conversation about how we could have exceeded your expectations, as that is truly our end goal! We respectfully ask that our thread be kept appropriate and for the moderators to be so kind as to help us achieve this goal by removing any negativity that may result from our response to this emotionally charged situation.
Thank you for the time you took to read our response!
The Nuts Over Chameleons Team
Many of you may have already been made aware of what we are about to share. There has been a very negative, heated and emotionally charged situation unfolding here on Chameleon Forums regarding a transaction that took place between us and another member. As you know Nuts Over Chameleons has offered a 10 Day Health Guarantee for all chameleons we sell, this being one of the longest health guarantees offered by any reputable chameleon breeder. In addition, we have provided 24/7 customer support and have never sent a chameleon off without a follow up as to how he/she is adjusting. Those of you who have received chameleons from us also know that you have received updates throughout the entire process (from the day you select the chameleon you want, including the day your chameleon is shipped up until the day that chameleon arrives in your care).
On June 25th we sent a chameleon off to a customer and that customer received the chameleon on June 26th. That customer was very pleased with the chameleon received and even voluntarily posted an unpacking video which clearly illustrated their excitement! We have that video and excerpts from all communication received, but in order to preserve the dignity of our customer, will not be publicly sharing those here at this time or any further time unless made to do so. We will however share only that which has been made public by this individual while still respectfully removing identifiers and names. Please do note the lapse of time mentioned by the customer in the one publicly shared communication.
We have decided to respond with this thread, not to bring any harm about , but for the sole purpose of helping to clear our name of any wrong doing (whether willfully or unknowingly). In addition we feel compelled to share a bit more information about Coccidia. We feel that there is quite a lot of info out and available on this parasite but still not enough on life cycle, acquisition and pathophysiology related to chameleons. On day 15 (5 days beyond our health guarantee) the above mentioned customer notified us that their chameleon tested positive for the parasite Coccidia. What we do know for certain, is that Coccidia is highly contagious between reptiles. In fact, as with Bearded Dragons, it is quite common for chameleons to carry low numbers of Coccidia oocysts in their GI system and that either reptile, can be completely asymptomatic with these low numbers. These numbers may be low enough that they go undetected and if detected, low enough and in the absence of symptoms, treatment is not warranted. We also know that major stressors can cause an otherwise undetectable case of Coccidia to flare up to where levels are detectable and in some cases, exacerbated to a degree that symptoms present and serious illness results. With Bearded Dragons, it is recommended that fecal samples are not collected and tested until the animal has adequately had time to adjust to their new environment. What has been observed is that Coccidia oocysts increase during the stressful transitional phase and then once the animal has adjusted (assuming that their new environment is suited for their needs), their immune system kicks into high gear and the number of oocysts decline without any visible symptoms or harm to the animal. Another gray area is how long it takes for the oocysts to present in the stool of the exposed chameleon. In mice, this can occur as soon as 2 to 3 days after exposure. In chameleons, there is still a lack of available research in this area. We also know that certain food sources are more susceptible to spreading this parasite to chameleons (if contaminated) but that does not make all other food sources immune to the possibility. Just because the risk may be less, and just because we are confident in our husbandry and where we receive and how we keep our feeders, as well as have confidence in our quarantine routine and follow strict protocol, does not mean that it cannot be lurking and lying in wait.
Well now, given all of the above information, you can imagine the dilemma at hand. You may now be asking, what it is that we are doing on our side to ensure that we are able to continue to provide healthy animals to our customers. Our response first and foremost, is to conduct a thorough quarantine of possibly infected animals and perform fecal exams. WE ARE REASSURED IN THAT TO DATE, WE HAVE NO SIGNS/SYMPTOMS, OR POSITIVE RESULTS THAT COULD INDICATE THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH COCIDIA IN HOUSE. We always encourage customers to seek veterinary exams and have regular fecals performed, and NEVER have we had a customer return with a positive fecal for any parasite. But due to the seriousness of this condition, never mind the accusations, we will be following a meticulous and methodical in-house evaluation of our collection. We will be revising our policies and guarantees and offering incentives for responsible chameleon ownership within our customers. More information will be shared at a later time as a lot of investigation and processing must take place.
Those of you who have come to know us and trust us, know that we pride ourselves in setting the bar high for healthy chameleons. No stone will be left unturned! We will be thorough, we will be transparent, and we will post updates as information becomes available.
As chameleon keepers and hobbyists, please take from the sharing of this experience the following: (1) Quarantine ALL newly acquired chameleons regardless of where or who you received them from (no breeder/seller regardless of how reputable is above a hidden disease). (2) Pre-arrange your first vet exam before the arrival of your chameleon and inquire with your reptile veterinarian as to when an appropriate time would be to conduct your first fecal in the absence of symptoms or adequate stool availability at time of visit. We recommend that should you desire that extra peace of mind, you collect a stool sample as early on as possible. (3) Be vigilant in what you expose your chameleon to during their quarantine. Isolate and do not free-range your chameleon where they can be at risk for potential stress and further contamination while adjusting to their new environment. (4) And finally, never be afraid to ask questions of your breeder. A good breeder will be eager to address your concerns. Allow your breeder/seller guarantee to protect you and be forthcoming with ANY and ALL developments during that time.
On a more personal note, I would like to reiterate, that Nuts Over Chameleons is a family business! We are ALL equally invested in time, love and care of our chameleons and each play different roles in maintaining our chameleons and handling business matters! It is a TEAM effort, so please never be offended when we respond as such. Truth be told, it has never gotten easy to sell a chameleon and the ONLY comfort that we receive out of each rehoming is the comfort from knowing that our chameleon/(s) are finding a good home! Those who have purchased from us, know that it is not a quick process. There are many questions asked and many suggestions made before a chameleon leaves our hands. As for me, Jessica, you will not see my hands in any of the pictures taken the day a chameleon is packaged and shipped, due to the fact that it is my recognized weakness as a result of my attachment. So please, do not think for a second, that receiving the news of a loss under the above mentioned circumstances is anything less than devastating to our team. It will take quite some time for us to be able to move beyond this experience as well.
Upon finishing our lengthy response, if you were a customer of ours and feel compelled to share your positive experience below, it would be greatly appreciated. If for any reason you feel that your experience with our company was anything less than exceptional, please drop us a personal message and let us engage in a conversation about how we could have exceeded your expectations, as that is truly our end goal! We respectfully ask that our thread be kept appropriate and for the moderators to be so kind as to help us achieve this goal by removing any negativity that may result from our response to this emotionally charged situation.
Thank you for the time you took to read our response!
The Nuts Over Chameleons Team