Ill jackson chams!!! long message sorry!

[cacoonkitty]

Hiya guys, a few months ago (approx 9) i bought two captive bred meru jacksons, a m/f pair of adults about a year old, when i got them home within a few days i realised that they had very mild symptoms of m.b.d..probably due to the breeder not supplementing at all and using old worn out uv bulbs !!! ,the female and males jaw was ever so slightly bowed at the bottom,and a little soft looking when chewing there food and the male sometimes fell from his brances when he was trying to climb around his ficcus tree!! and so i made sure that there calcium/and vits were increased gently and that the insect were gut loaded really well with a really good cricket gut load ,veg and bee pollen too so as to provide a good source of nutrition for my guys ,they had good lighting by the use of low wattage spots so as not tyo over heat the cool loving speceis for basking and a strip lights for uva/b, they did improve over time and the male i can say grew bigger and started to shed better too , his grip got tones better and he stopped falling from his branches and best of all he started to display to her and try to mate ...but im not sure if he managed or not yet! !!!....however at the same time as trhis was happening (a few weeks ago ) he started to become sleepy and would often go to a darker area in his viv and sleep all day not moving unless disturbed(i dont generaly handle them at all) , i would mist them well in the morning and in the evening too and they had a external cool mist humidifier blowing into there large wooden sided and glass fronted vented enclosure in the morning and early evening to bring up humidity and i let it dry out in the middle of the day, but he was going down hill...i took him to the vet several times as he had developed an absess in his upper mouth , the vet removed this but he now has since taken him into the vets for extra care to try to save him and he is on antibiotics (baytrill) and they are tube feeding him..apparently he is doing well so far which is great and they are waiting for him to feed on his own ! ,however.. the female has since yesterday also developed the same thing but not as bad (said the vet) so i have antibiotics for her too but i have her at home... i was so worried that i may have done something wrong but the vet said it was possibly the increasing heat bringing the viv temps up to high at the moment, so to stop this i have now compleatly open up there viv and placed them into a large mesh reptile enclosure and i am relying on misting there trees and them for humidity instead of the humidifier so as to provide better ventilation,
soooo anyway....do you think its best to keep them in this mesh viv instead from now on...could the humidity and heat in the old viv be causing the mouth problems? and causing them to worsen !!, my third meru is from someone compleatly diffrent and he is fine and in great condition so i dont think its me and the temps arnt stupidly high just in the very low eightlys (bu to hot for a meru)..the vet said it was probably an on going thing from the breeders stupidity and lack of care but brought on by the heat recently...do you think this is true?? im very worried about my little jewels amd hope they pull through!!!. x

 

[chambabysitter1]

Some line breaks would really help that story be more presentable.

Anyways, are you keeping them all in the same enclosure?

Fill this out, in detail, and people can tell you more about that viv.
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Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
* Location - Where are you geographically located?


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[cacoonkitty]

right then,sorry guys about my grammer, was in a hurry last night to get this posted,and am not the worlds best at that stuff !!!, many appols!.

CAGE TYPE-( was when the chams fell ill 3 weeks ago )an all wood with glass sliding front.The sides ,and back were vented , it was 3 foot long by 2.5 foot deep, by 3 foot high, (now as of 3 days ago after the femal fell ill too) - its an all screen viv 3 foot high by 1.5 deep by 1.5 high, i have lined it with u.v resistant hard clear plastic at the back and the sides to help keep a bit of humidity in when i spray them but kept the front and the top all screen.

LIGHTING- was an arcadia brand strip bulb 30w 12% uv repti d3 ,recomended to me because of the height of the viv for better emiting of u.v at heights, mounted at the top of the viv changed every 5 months to keep it working, and the spots at each end were halogen 20 watts lucky reptile minis for basking areas , however the bottom half of the viv was cooler for a temp graduation for my chams to choose from. (now) i have a lucky reptile u.v strip bulb 10%, and a 20 watt lucky reptilke spot at the top mounted outside the viv, still with no lighting or heat at night as before.

SUBSTRATE-(now and before )-cream lino coverd with clean kitchen towel each day after cleaning and spraying ,

DECORE- (before) two large well washed ,and re potted (in no fertilizer soil ),ficcus trees ,with lots of climbing branches at difrent heights, for them to move around, (now) i have the one nice bushy tree ,as i have just the two chams in there with plenty of branches again .

FOOD- 4 times a week, gut loaded the night before ,and calcium dusted before feeding smallish 3rd sized crickets ,or occasionaly wax worms for a treat, sometime small moths or butterflys ,if i can catch them or buy them. i would also supplement 2 times a week with (nutrobol )calcium and vit/mineral .

HUMIDITY- (before) 80%-90% with humidifier on by usage of the external cool mist lucky reptile humidifier that would go on for 15 mins once each hour in the morning time, from 7 until 11 ,and again in the evening times ,from 4 till 8 ,with a drying time in the middle day ,and two heavy sparyings a day morning and early evening , i would shower them once a week ,in warm water in the bathroom.
(now) its 60%-70% with the same sprayings and shower time but i have not yet fitted the humidifier...am waiting to see how they react without it as may not need it.... so far they seem fine

TEMPS- (before which is now during the summer at the hottest in old viv)basking area 90 degrees farenheight,and 81 degrees farenheight ambient temps... which i know is to hot for montain chams hence the move of viv
( now) basking area 83 degs farenheight, and ambients 74.night time down to mid 60s

i did keep them together as found they didnt bother each other through observation...i know that its best to keep chams alone with most types of chams but i was told by a good breeder of this speceis that aslong as they werent showing stress colours (which they wernt and had enough room away from each other and hidy spots these chams were fine together...not like yemans or panthers who wouldnt be !!!

AGE -approx 1.5 years old, the third cham who is male is unknowen as got him from someone else as long term captive kept wild caught, but he is fine though ..no probs with him at all its just the two i got from the same breeder a while ago that are ill.

i dont handle them if possible at all,they are kept in a quite area ,and i dont have loud noises going on in my home so its peacfull.

the breeder of the two sick ones wast supplementing them at all he said they didnt need it!! ,and he didnt keep them under new u.vs, i think they were mercury vapours which are powerfull! that had run out , there was no decor appart from some twigs in there vivs so no hidy spots away from each other also they both had slight m.b.d when i received them, but this got better over the last 8 months that i have had them with treatment of suplementation, this sickness has just started within the last months as the tems have increased with the weather and both have absesses i the mouth, the female is with me still as she isnt so bad, and beight treated with baytril and seems a bit better since the move of viv and medcine, the male is with the vet for a week now and is to on baytril but also is being cared for a little more closely as he was worse !. i would never leave my animals untreated because of money or lack of time to care they are to special to me..i would rather go without food my self and see them being cared for !!.

 

[Chammy22424]

hey there Cacoon,
you should get your hands on some Phonix worms to try to reverse that MBD( they are REALLLY high in calcium and you dont have to dust them) .
Also you said you were feed you chams 4 times a week, i feed my cham every day about 10-15 crickets, and follow this supplement schedule:

Monday: Calcium powder
Tuesday: none
Wednesday: calcium powder
Thursday: none
Friday: calcium powder
Saturday: none
Sunday: Vitamins

I have had my cham for about a year now and he has shown no signs of any illness of MBD.
Also try to get your chams some fresh sunlight by taking them outside for like 5-10 mins every once in a while.
you should switch you UVB to reptisun 5.0 linear bulb, they are the best.

You can get Phonix worms and others at
http://coastalsilkworms.com/splash.html

 

[cacoonkitty]

Hiya, thanks for the reply, i did mean to put i had a repti sun in with them, dont know why i wrote lucky reptile,thinking to much.. sorry abouth that!! i have a repti sun and yes they are the best i agree, i do let them go outside sometimes on there ficcus tree if its not to hot but as you say just for a short time, the m.b.d did slow down really well but took alot, i dont know if we can get phoenix worms in the u.k or if so are they too big for my chams...they are only 6 inches long nose to tip of tail!! so are compleat dwarf jackosns so only have little mouths, could only just fit a wax worm in there...how big are these feeders ? sound good though, i have heard about them but not tried them yet!,
i am getting my male (bellybutton is his name) back from the vet tommorow after a week in there care,the vet said that he has picked up a bit now which is great news so fingers crossed he will pull through, the female (fluff is her name)is looking ok at the moment, better than when i took her into the vet a few days ago at least, still ill ,but a bit more aleart so her medcine continues for the next week or so, the new enclosure is better and cooler than the old, i think i will cover the front of the old viv with a mesh door instead so its better venitlated and the heat wouldnt build up so they can still live in there in the future as its nice a big for them !!.
fingres crossed i hope they will pull through, its soooo hot in the u.k at the moment i have to keep a close eye on there hydration.

 

[chambabysitter1]

Wow, that cage is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too small to be keeping multiple chameleons. \


Sounds like they are fighting as well, unless you are very experienced, or watching them 24/7, I don't think you can't discount that any of the mouth problems were caused by fighting.

I would split them up asap, and do some proper research.

 

[cacoonkitty]

hiya, trust me ive been keeping reps for many any years now and so i am pretty experianced id like to say ...im sure there are many, many out there that compleatly swamp me and many other people ,but im not one to just get and animal and keep it just for the sake of it and not check out its needs first , i hate that sort of thing!! , i have kept over 40 diffrent types,geckos,chams,dragons,iguanas, fijian iguanas,frogs,insects, you name it, some that i have bred too ,but ,these ones are relativly new to me and have only had them 8 months and they werent in very good order when i received them in the first place !!, and i do nothing but research as i love to find new stuff out and find it very intresting regardless.
With regards to the viv size as i said they are dwarf jacksons not normal ones so are tiny chameleons only 3 inch body and 3 inch tail if that, and the viv i have the two (male and female)in at the moment is a temorary viv anyway to stop the heat from killing them at the moment...even though i use a thermostat i have had to turn off the spots as the temps are still going up way to high,so have had no choice and have put them in a cooler room and in the mesh viv i have for emergencys and they seem just fine. it is 3 foot high and one and a half foot deep and one and a half foot wide, so big enough for them at presant...the normal viv is 4 foot by 3 foot by two foot and is massive for them but until i create the mesh front they are in the temporary viv.
i know for a fact that my chams dont fight ,there mouth problems are not injurys!! they started from the lack of care given from the old owner/breeder,this was confirmed by my vet today as he knows i look after my animals and knew they werent in great condition when i first got them and had m.b.d minor, he has had my male cham in his care for a week now and i received him back today and he is still hanging on and is a fighter dispite the antibiotics he is still poorly and if he is still the same by monday under his home conditions and away from the stress of the vet surgery, he wil be put to rest under advice of the vet plus i dont wish any reptile i keep in any more pain or suffering than needs be.
i have watched for many hours, sometimes at the annoyance of my fiance, but as the viv was so dencely planted they didnt bother each other at all never show stress colours and i have had advice from ta breeder of his speceis of cham.

the female seems to be reponding to her anti biotics well and her mouth has reduced in inflamation and swelling wich is fab!!, she ate thismorning too!, so we will have to wait and see and just hope my male picks up.
x

 

[cacoonkitty]

R.I.P Hes gone to the big tree in the clouds now.

Hiya guys, well sadly today my little Chameleon meru jackson boy had to be put to sleep, after quite a lot of treatment over the last few weeks my herp vet said that this was probably the kindest thing to do , i am compleatly gutted!!!!!!!! i know i gave the best i could for him and i know he was in a bad way when i got him anyway with m.b.d amoungst ather things too i think, but we cant help blaming our selves, R.I.P little man. i miss you

 

[CleaTheChameleon]

Hiya guys, well sadly today my little Chameleon meru jackson boy had to be put to sleep, after quite a lot of treatment over the last few weeks my herp vet said that this was probably the kindest thing to do , i am compleatly gutted!!!!!!!! i know i gave the best i could for him and i know he was in a bad way when i got him anyway with m.b.d amoungst ather things too i think, but we cant help blaming our selves, R.I.P little man. i miss you

im sorry for your loss

 

[jannb]

So sorry for your loss.

 

[cacoonkitty]

thanks guys, im so upsett. poor little man, at least hes not suffering anymore i guess. x