"If you need drainage for indoor habitats, you're doing it wrong!" Over watering

Some thoughts I feel may be useful...

In the wild, they get a lot more rain, day and nite. The thing to remember is, they are not trapped into one wet location, they can stay higher and drier if they need to.
IMO,In captivity, you want to give the lots of water, but you dont want the dampness issues it causes, so we balance this. An easy way to balance this is with drainage, but everyones situation is DRASTICALLY different, so of course different things are going to work for different people.

also

Sandrachameleon points out that the "raining" is beneficial to their skin and eyes. I think this is important to keep in mind. I dont have any research that says this is true, but an animal that lives and evolves in rainstorms for thousands of years is bound to have some sort of symbiotic relationship with said rain, on all kinds of biological and psychological levels.

also

I sat outside in a thunderstorm today, with my two chameleons, to observe their behavior. My xanth was not phased at all by the rain, as sat still when it started. She did not start drinking until the rain fall was fairly heavy, then she drank for minutes.

My panther slowly made his way under a palm leaf for cover. After the rain got really heavy, he started to drink also(as the water fall was suffecient to penetrate his "cover").

They both drank slowly, and for at least 20 min. I then went inside so I have no idea what happened after that.

I give them all out rainstorms when they are outside. 3-10 times a day depending on how hot it is. They drink almost everytime, and the misting goes on for 10-20min at a time.

I have noticed, that the harder the "rainfall" the more likely they are to drink.

They both drink from leaves and drippers when they are inside, and they get "misted" more than "rained", but they never drink as much(it seems) from these.

Just my experience and thoughts.
 
Yep...... My Mist King goes off every 1 1/2 hr. for about 30-40 seconds just to dampen things....the cage drys before the next session;) His dripper is 1 gallon size & drips all day every day.

Im glad this is working for your chameleon :)
 
Plenty of hydration is fundamental, we all agree on that.

The argument presented has been of restraint to not "over water" in ones enthusiasm to ensure proper intake. No one is arguing to provide inadequate hydration. Technique....

Getting your program "dialed in" shouldn't be a pain in the butt, it should be fun.
 
Snake: Some dont have a clue how much they will drink if it is provided to them regularly....... :(

I agree, because I did not realize this myself for some time.

Im not saying that Chameleopatrick is slowly turning his chameleons into beef jerky.

Im just saying that all out rainstorms are "better" on more levels for the chameleons I have encountered.

One could measure, and forcibly administer water everyday, and have good looking urates, maybe, even(not saying Chameleopatrick is doing anything like this at all). Will the animal live? Sure. Will it be missing out? Yes. Will it be adversely effected by the lack of water? I cant say. I just sorta kinda no how they live in the wild...maybe.


FYI:My xanth is outside right now, its 0210am here, in her outdoor enclosure the temp is 64F its raining on her as we speak. I am going to go see if this effects her sleeping...
 
While its only remotely related to this thread at best:
My xanth is high up in her enclosure, totally out in the open, facing up at a 45* angle..
She has not moved since the rain has started. She is sort of "wiggling" though. I find this subject interesting as its the first time Ive had her in this situation.

Somehow i end up with a laff from one of your comments every night.... ty!:p:):D
Well, good :)

I just dont actually know what its like in that type of environment, I come from near desert conditions.

Strong probability.

Well maybe I am too. I really dont want you to feel that I think you are doing anything wrong. I have only been keeping for 10 months or so, and in that time I have changed the way I care for my chameleons on many levels, and I imagine I will continue to "refine" my care as time goes on. As you said, we are all learning everyday. So I am reading into your advice, and taking it into account. I just cant see that working for me.


My final thoughts on offering water:
Everyone needs to actively monitor their own situation, and water accordingly, using their best judgement.

Watering is like making ramon noodles, you dont follow any directions, you just make the damn soup. ;)
 
If one reads the technique stated originally, water droplets are available on all live plants for up to four hours twice a day, that's eight hours a day of available drinking water not including the 1-2 hours of total daily fogging.

Not sure how some have made the leap that providing drinking water 2/3 of the day isn't enough.
 
chameleopatrick: You have not answered the question but thats ok. I do apologize for attacking you. It was un needed.

Edit: I will leave this thread..
 
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If one reads the technique stated originally, water droplets are available on all live plants for up to four hours twice a day, that's eight hours a day of available drinking water not including the 1-2 hours of total daily fogging.

Not sure how some have made the leap that providing drinking water 2/3 of the day isn't enough.

I see what your saying, but thats not where I am coming from.:eek:

What I am saying is, that in my experience, there can be a dripper going 24/7 and droplets running everywhere, and the chameleon still wont drink much, comparatively to when they are being rained on.
You said you give them a heavy/longer misting session from time to time as well though, and that all this works great for you.
You also state that having drainage is more of a bother than not having it. In my experience it has been the other way around.

I also think Hoj really put you out there by posting this topic in this manner.:p Not that you had to get involved in the discussion(although Im glad you are, as the OP was taken out of context, and an incomplete explanation to what you are saying).
I think must have to water adequately if your animals are doing well.
Watering seems to always cause a discussion on here, thats because it is a huge, and important variable in keeping. It always comes down to the same thing, everyone should use what works for them.

I also think that chameleons must want water at times in the wild, and not have access to it. So if we were REALLY going for "realistic" husbandry, a "drought" period would be implemented, but lets face it, giving a living animal an appropriate amount of water when they need it is only a good thing, all around. So at this point, I cant see what you mean either by making them want it a little.:confused:
Mine seem to always want it, no matter what anyhow.
 
my intention was not to put anyone "out there"
i wanted a good conversation about the difference in keeping techniques that "are working" for experienced keepers.
as someone put we are always evaluating our keeping techniques and trying to improve the quailty of lives for our chams. i know my chams are hydrated and healthy and i know what has and is working for me, but that said there is always room for improvment and with out discussions like these, how can we learn from one another, sucsesses and failures.
there are a few other topics that i feel could benifit from discussions like these, and am curious if others think it is a postive thing???
thank you all for keeping it respuctfull for the most part and pls keep it up.
hoj
 
I think the only thing that ticked off members about this thread was the fact that doing it any other way than yours is doing it wrong. Which is, forgive me, a little arrogant. Those of us that have been here long enough know that what works for one person may or may not work for another because there are many variables. Like I said earlier, if you have a Meller's for example, that needs at least 15-20 minutes of misting (not dripping, dripping would have to be supplemental) then you are going to have to need drainage. With my veiled I probably could have gotten away with not needing drainage, because she didn't enjoy mistings like my panthers do, but not for my others. So it really depends on the species and the circumstances whether you can get away with not using drainage. To say that doing it any other way is wrong is kind of a strange statement to me.

I'm surprised that someone who has been in this hobby so long still thinks there is only one way to skin a cat.
 
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my intention was not to put anyone "out there"
i wanted a good conversation about the difference in keeping techniques that "are working" for experienced keepers.
as someone put we are always evaluating our keeping techniques and trying to improve the quailty of lives for our chams. i know my chams are hydrated and healthy and i know what has and is working for me, but that said there is always room for improvment and with out discussions like these, how can we learn from one another, sucsesses and failures.
there are a few other topics that i feel could benifit from discussions like these, and am curious if others think it is a postive thing???
thank you all for keeping it respuctfull for the most part and pls keep it up.
hoj

Not to get to off-topic, but I didnt mean it was "wrong" of you, just that he was put on the spot in a way, and wanted Chameleopatrick to know that I appreciated hearing the full "shpill" if you will. ;)

I agree that there are many topics that would benefit us to hash out like this. Even a bit of arguing can be healthy, and get some really great points across, as well as to help get straight to the heart of a topic. ;)

Even though most topics have been discussed countless times already, I think its important we keep going over them, since there are always people who the information will be new to, and we are also always learning new things.

Great thread.;)
 
Olimpia is absolutely correct in saying: "...what works for one person may or may not work for another because there are many variables"
We all live in different climates, using different enclosure types, caring for many types of chameleon. Each of us needs to think about the needs of our particular situation, the natural conditions our particular animal evolved in, and adjust accordingly.

Well..... lets see...... Whats better??? Too much water = RI & vet visits. Too little means dripping a little longer.... Take your pick:)

offer plenty of water is not the same as too much. Indeed even "too much" isnt going to cause an RI unless you are totally failing to deal with the excess water.
too little water = dehydration and very likely as a subsequent result weakness, illness, death.....
I would hate any keeper to read this thread and think they should offer less water, when the opposite is more likely true.

edited to add the word "more"
 
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yes i agree, that was why i let him, introduce himself as the owner of the statement.
i have to admit i water alot less than many keepers and often think about watering of the chams. ( but do have drainage ) so it was interesting for me to see what others thought.
and yes i but almost evey topic has been covered on here at some point, but like you said going over them cant hurt, and when we can get a few experienced members having a constructive debate on techniques and ideas it helps get away from some of the "parrot'd" responces on here.
i feel it will only make us all better keepers.
i think we still need to remember that we cant judge tone or intent for a typed post and not to take anything personl and even if someone says something is "wrong" still only means it is wrong in their eyes and situation, and we all have a right to our own opinion and a duty to do our own reasearch and make the decision based on what we feel will benfit our chams.
 
I think we still need to remember that we cant judge tone or intent for a typed post and not to take anything personal and even if someone says something is "wrong" still only means it is wrong in their eyes and situation, and we all have a right to our own opinion and a duty to do our own reasearch and make the decision based on what we feel will benfit our chams.

This is the whole reason threads get "de-railed".

Like I said though, I think even a little "arguing" can be healthy, as long as it doesnt get into name calling or some such ridiculousness:rolleyes:

People can easily be ignored as well, even more so over the internet. ;)
 
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