Help. Swollen foot.

[Karliah]

Just recieved this male hoehnelii today. I was told he had a swollen toe. This is a swollen foot/lower leg. I'm not sure if that means it has spread or if it was just described as "toe" even though it actually looked like this. It is not curved like MBD, just swollen. He moves around well and often. Any help is appreciated. It's his back right leg.

 

[jpowell86]

It is definitely swollen. It could be caused from injury, infection, or even gout. I would recommend taking the little guy to vet so you could get a concrete answer. Maybe pm @ferretinmyshoes about the issue. The problem with issues like this is that there could be numerous reasons as to why the leg is swollen. So, you may be able to get good advice on how to take care of certain issues here, but they have to be correctly identified first.....and a vet trip should be your course of action IMO.

He also appears to have some swelling in his casque and around his eye...or is the picture playing tricks on me?

Other than that...he is beautiful. Congratulations!!

 

[Karliah]

It is definitely swollen. It could be caused from injury, infection, or even gout. I would recommend taking the little guy to vet so you could get a concrete answer. Maybe pm @ferretinmyshoes about the issue. The problem with issues like this is that there could be numerous reasons as to why the leg is swollen. So, you may be able to get good advice on how to take care of certain issues here, but they have to be correctly identified first.....and a vet trip should be your course of action IMO.

He also appears to have some swelling in his casque and around his eye...or is the picture playing tricks on me?

Other than that...he is beautiful. Congratulations!!

I'll have to call around and see if anyone would see and "exotic" (small town and I could see the 3 or 4 vets offices we have saying they wouldn't see him)
I'm not sure on the eye and casque as I actually haven't seen him myself yet. I'm at work and the husband unpacked them. I'll be sure to update when I get home.
Thanks!

 

[Carlton]

I'll have to call around and see if anyone would see and "exotic" (small town and I could see the 3 or 4 vets offices we have saying they wouldn't see him)
I'm not sure on the eye and casque as I actually haven't seen him myself yet. I'm at work and the husband unpacked them. I'll be sure to update when I get home.
Thanks!

You are going to need an experienced herp vet for this guy IMHO. That leg is definitely swollen. First inspect that foot and look for damaged or missing claws and any injuries on the pad of his foot. Could be due to an infection. But, if there aren't obvious injuries that broke the skin, it could also be a soft tissue injury from rough handling.
Does his other eye look like this one? If so, there could be a systemic problem going on. Again, the swelling and the pocket in front of the eye could be from a sinus infection or blockage. With a recent import I'd guess injuries or infections.

 

[Dave Bolamperti]

Hey Karliah,
Congratulations on the new hoehnelii , on my bucket list they have some great colors. Hope your little guy gets better, I'd find a vet soon before it develops into something worse.Good luck
Dave

 

[Karliah]

Thanks all! Just got home. Eyes are both fine. He has some rust color throughout his head/body and it's also on his eye turrets. In the picture the way the skin creased plus the rust color made it look like a pocket/swelling but it is not. I tried to upload a video of the eye but couldn't.
Looks likes an injury on/around one of the three toenails in this side. Don't know if the swelling is just all from injury, or if it's now infected.

Slightly different lighting/angle:

He also has a tiny kink almost at the tip of his tail but it is healed and not swollen.
After posting this I will be calling around to different vets.

 

[Karliah]

There are 4 vet offices in town. One was closed so I will call them tomorrow. Second place said no reptiles. The third said they have a vet that comes into town sometimes and sees reptiles, but is booked up to the 29th. The 4th place said they see reptiles regularly with a specific vet, but they unfortunately only take patients the exact days/hours I work. I'll try to see tomorrow if they could make a slightly later appointment, as I know they do emergencies after buisness hours.

 

[Karliah]

I do have Cipro tablets on hand (and also liquid fenbendazole (panacur) if I needed to treat for worms).
I can make a suspension out of the Cipro at any strength needed(it's what I do for a living)
Is Cipro something usually used on Chams? Is there anything I can use topically/internally that's OTC?

 

[Carlton]

If the toe was the only thing involved and the injury was open, an OTC med like Polysporin might be enough. As the swelling has progressed I think your best option is a systemic antibiotic. Sorry, can't answer about the Cipro suspension.

 

[TheCoop]

From the last photo it looks as if constriction due to a bit of retained shed, could just be an injury as well.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Is this a wild caught?

If it's a wild caught be very careful about worming and medicating. Wildcaughts come in pretty banged up and broken. They heal up just fine.

 

[Karliah]

If the toe was the only thing involved and the injury was open, an OTC med like Polysporin might be enough. As the swelling has progressed I think your best option is a systemic antibiotic. Sorry, can't answer about the Cipro suspension.

Thanks, I'll keep the polysporin in mind for future reference.

From the last photo it looks as if constriction due to a bit of retained shed, could just be an injury as well.

Thanks! Hadn't thought about that as a cause.

Is this a wild caught?

If it's a wild caught be very careful about worming and medicating. Wildcaughts come in pretty banged up and broken. They heal up just fine.

Even overcoming infections?
I was under the impression they were WC. The female is as skittish and scared as I'd expect a wild caught to be. The male however (the one with the swollen limb) seems very neutral about my presence. I even got him to drink from a syringe. The female just ran away as fast as possible when she saw that plastic thing comming towards her.
I'm not sure if that means maybe he's not wild caught, a friendly wild caught, just more acclimated to humans, or the (possible) infection is so bad he just doesn't care. I hope it's not the last one.

 

[JGspecial]

his foot may have puss in it that needs to be drained. this happened to my jackson when he got a cut between his toes. it ended up swelling so bad that the infection traveled to the other leg. he had an oral antibiotic and i had to swab another medicine at the site of the cut after i tried to manually drain it everyday. everything went back to normal within a week or 2. the area eventually formed a scab and when it healed he lost a toenail. the poor little guy is fine now and happy. you seem to have the same issue as i had. quick action to the vet saved my little guy. act quick so the infection doesnt travel further up his body.

 

[Karliah]

his foot may have puss in it that needs to be drained. this happened to my jackson when he got a cut between his toes. it ended up swelling so bad that the infection traveled to the other leg. he had an oral antibiotic and i had to swab another medicine at the site of the cut after i tried to manually drain it everyday. everything went back to normal within a week or 2. the area eventually formed a scab and when it healed he lost a toenail. the poor little guy is fine now and happy. you seem to have the same issue as i had. quick action to the vet saved my little guy. act quick so the infection doesnt travel further up his body.

Did you decide/do this all on your own or was it with vet recommendation/help/prescriptions?
---
Edit:
Just saw you edited your post to include the part about the vet.
I'll try to make an appointment but I'm not very confident any vet in this town has real chameleon (let alone reptile) experience.

 

[kinyonga]

The swollen toe will need to have the pus/infection removed from it and a culture and sensitivity test done to determine the best medication to treat the infection with.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Even overcoming infections?
I was under the impression they were WC. The female is as skittish and scared as I'd expect a wild caught to be. The male however (the one with the swollen limb) seems very neutral about my presence. I even got him to drink from a syringe. The female just ran away as fast as possible when she saw that plastic thing comming towards her.
I'm not sure if that means maybe he's not wild caught, a friendly wild caught, just more acclimated to humans, or the (possible) infection is so bad he just doesn't care. I hope it's not the last one.

You would be shocked at how bad wild caughts are when they come in.

With things like swelling, scrapes and broken bones, there is a lot of judgement involved. If you don't have much experience with chameleons and wild caught chameleons in particular, you won't have good judgment. If you take him to a vet, you now also need your vet to have good judgement.

To illustrate, I bought a wild caught a couple of weeks after import. The whole shipment was really beat up. A few weeks after I got him, he developed a swollen leg that was causing him a lot of pain. The vet wasn't sure what the problem was but suspected it was an abscess from an infection somewhere else in his body draining into his leg. Her veterinarian background wanted to do surgery but she said that she would kill him if she did. She has judgment. Another vet might have operated and I think he would have died.

In general, aggressively treating wild caughts tends to kill them, especially newly acquired wild caughts. They are quite compromised.

It will help a lot if you know when they were imported and how many people they've passed through before you received them. Any wild caught animal has been under incredible stress and in horrific conditions to make it to the US alive. They really need to recover. You don't necessarily want to treat everything that is wrong with them

Hydration is the most important thing you can give them. Good luck..

 

[jajeanpierre]

The swollen toe will need to have the pus/infection removed from it and a culture and sensitivity test done to determine the best medication to treat the infection with.

Kinyonga, do you even know there is an infection?

I keep hearing people recommending cultures and sensitivity tests done for infected wounds. Do the people recommending it really do it themselves? I have never had a vet do a culture on a run of the mill infected wound unless it is not responding to the treatment, but even then, the vets usually just switches the medication. I suspect I spend more in vet work in a single year than most of you will spend in your entire lives, and I have rarely had a culture sent off to pathology and never had a sensitivity test done.

 

[kinyonga]

I have never seen a toe swollen like that that was not infected in my 25+ years of keeping chameleons...but I guess there could always be an exception.

I have also always had culture and sensitivity tests done....its the best way to chose the best medication to kill the bacteria involved.

 

[Karliah]

I've found a vet in town the is quite experienced with reptiles. If I can get an appoinment that works with my hours I will take him in. She said there were openings Thursday and Friday I believe.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I have never seen a toe swollen like that that was not infected in my 25+ years of keeping chameleons...but I guess there could always be an exception.

I have also always had culture and sensitivity tests done....its the best way to chose the best medication to kill the bacteria involved.

I don't see what you are seeing that in the pictures--I'm not saying you are wrong or anything, but the pictures don't necessarily say that to me. I've also had very sore and swollen toes that were not infected. A newly imported wild caught with swelling and wounds is pretty normal. I just bought a long-term wild caught that has a similar swelling to one leg and it looks like it is a healed fracture from capture/import. What you are seeing in the pictures might be an old, healed or healing injury. The animal in question is not seemingly experiencing any pain, and pain is a good indicator of the acuteness of the injury.

I've also had chameleons with lumps and swellings that the vet believed were abscesses but chose not to treat because the treatment would likely do more damage (i.e. kill the chameleon) than the abscess. The body is an amazing thing and with a good immune system, will be able to wall off things. I've also had an abscess lanced and drained but we only did that because it was getting larger, not because it was there. There is much to be said for taking a wait and see approach.

Re culture and sensitivity tests, neither my medical doctors nor my vets ever do that as a routine way of treating an infection. Most vets and medical doctors will prescribe a broad spectrum antibiotic which is an antibiotic that treats a broad spectrum of both gram positive and gram negative bacteria. Doing a culture first is both time consuming and expensive. Usually if treated with a broad spectrum antibiotic, the infection will be cleared up before the results are in anyway. If the infection is not responding an a few days, the vet or doctor will usually change antibiotics. There are times when my vets and doctors have sent a specimen to pathology to identify the organisms, but that has not been very common. I have Thoroughbred racehorses, and if they so much as cough twice, a vet is examining them. I've had horses with lung infections, had a lung wash (brocho alveolar lavage) performed--basically injecting fluid into the lungs, flushing it out and then examining what came out of the lungs--yet still didn't have any testing done on what was in the lungs. Vets might look under a microscope, but I've never paid for pathology, even when dealing with valuable breeding mares that failed pre-breeding testing because of bacteria in their reproductive tract.

I just think it is expensive over-doctoring for most situations and I would be suspect of a medical doctor or vet who performed those kinds of tests as a standard procedure. Medicine is an art form, and both doctors and vets are now relying more on testing rather than the art of healing and common sense.