Daewoo now farming Madagascar 1.3m hectares!!!!

[TylerStewart]

I agree with Eric also. We haven't done much of anything as far as drilling many parts of Alaska or many offshore locations (yet) because of "environmental concerns." Do you think there's any country on earth that would be sitting around looking at that potential but not acting on it simply because of wildlife concerns? I don't necessarily agree with all the regulation, but to say that the US is not doing it's best to try is simply not true.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Another thing - if you saw how much was wasted (resources, time taxpayer dollars...) as a result of environmental concerns, you'd be disgusted. As an employee of the state, I took part in endangered species surveys that lasted several weeks. These involved the full time of 6-10 of my fellow coworkers (each making $15-$20 an hour). Thousands and thousands of dollars enforcing federal regulations with little or no benifit. Just in case we found an endangered bird/plant. And if we did find them, the project woudl still go on - just after months of holdps and hundreds of thousands of dollars in delays.

Just ask anyone in the Charlotte area about their highway delays - all cause of an endangered mussel(carolina heelsplitter, I think). I worked in the office that found those suckers, causing years of delays.

 

[Chamero]

I dont know, I tend to agree with Sandra on this one. Ive traveled to many countries and the U.S. always comes back as the most wasteful. Although you are right in our recent improvements in ecological and environmental standards, there is much to be said about the past.
That being said, the main reason the U.S. has been able to improve so much, is because we can now outsource these problems to other countries. Just as Korea is not cutting down there own trees, they have outsourced the problem to Africa. As the U.S. may be improving the standards at home, they are one of the main contributors to global environmental issues.

 

[Garrett]

Mahefa Rakotomalala writes at L'express de Madagascar that the alleged land deal with South Korean company Daewoo has been officially rejected by the Malagasy government. The minister of land reform explained in a press release to local newspapers that anyone can request to lease an unlimited amount of land but it has to be approved by the state cabinet (fr).
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/...al-with-daewoo-finally-rejected-by-authority/

 

[jusmebabe]

The U.S. should be the last to complain. We have destroyed more than our share of this country and poluted this world with the best of them.
Babies by the hundreds being born and where do we suppose they are going to live? Well let's build more houses and push wildlife to the edge and then shoot them because they are in our backyard oops what used to be there backyard.
Now lets drill off the California coast and Alaska so we can fill those SUV's and Hummers with fuel.
So while were pretending to be upset with what happens in another part of the world, why don't we stop having3and 4kids per household ( I know noone has that many) so we don't have that excuse for owning these oversized vehicles and the need to build homes anywhere they fit.
Just my response to those who act as if they feel so sad and hurt by those bad people across the ocean

 

[Sang]

uhhh.. countries like china, india have a far larger birth rate in teh US. in the past 5 years the birth rate in the US has dropped drastically.

the typical. 3.5 or 4 child house hold is now down to a 2.5 at most and more commonly 2.0.

the US is one of the few countries to have completly banned commercial whaling, and just about any other form of whaling there after.* I KnOW A bit to late*, efforts to restore much of the devistated life and efforts to relocate animals is key as opposed to just shooting these animals, yes humans have encrouched on there habitats. its one of those things humans will have to eventually learn to live with.


the unfortunate side affects of many pesticides have almost been completly ceased, how ever they still remain.


as for oil, the united states exports almost 85% of the oil we drill to countries like japan, brazil and a few others , brazil gets almost 60% of what we sell.

all the OIL that the US gets minus 10% of what we drill and keep for ourselves is purchased over seas from countries like iraq, pakistan and a few others.

 

[chequepoint]

The simple truth is that americans care about the environment, until it effects them. The fact of the matter is that I live in a bigger apartment than I need, I drive more than I should, and I own all kinds of things that I don't need. We're not content to live in naturalistic huts and forage, farm, and hunt for food. We destroy the world with our need for material things.

I'm not pretending to be above it, I'm an active participant in it.

My problem is that "Green" is trendy right now, and is a far bigger business than it is anything that accomplishes good. For example, its great that the new apple laptops are made out of more recyclable materials, but that isn't going to stop me from getting a new one every year, when in all reality it would serve my needs for 3+ years, and in the bigger picture is something that I don't need to survive.

I have a point. My point is that we can't blame the Koreans or Madagascar for wanting their piece of the pie. Its tragic, its sad, but its going to happen. If it doesn't happen this time, it will the next time somebody makes a more compelling offer.

All of our conservation efforts will eventually be in vain, as the human race is a destructive force that will not stop until we reach a point where we can't sustain ourselves and collapse. We have a fixed amount of resources, and an inherent selfish desire for self preservation.

This hobby is a great micro example of that nature. Most of us would claim to be in this hobby for a love of the animals. That's a blatant lie. We are in this hobby because we love what the animals do for us. We like the feeling that we get by keeping these creatures on personal display for us. If we truly cared about the animals, we would have nothing to do with the pet industry and its mass slaughter of wildlife. Even captive bred animals would clearly be better off in the wild. We keep them because we're selfish, and they amuse us. We get off on the power of another life being dependent on us. The number of these animals killed in transport from the wild alone should make us want nothing to do with it. To top it off we manufacture toxic light bulbs and little plastic vines, plants, misting nozzles, cages, etc. to help pollute the planet and aide in our quest to hold these animals captive. We burn through extra electricity, and process more water than we would without the hobby but, I'm not quitting any time soon. I like my chameleons in their cages, and I'm certainly not paying for shipping back to madagascar.

 

[studiocham]

For a perspective on why Madagascar would even consider such a fundraising opportunity, see Chapter 9 of Lords and Lemurs by Allison Jolly. It is a pity that debt is/was considered desirable in modern culture. I saw a related bumper sticker yesterday: "Debt is Normal, Be Weird".

As for America's modern approach to preservation of species, I suspect there are as many examples of the negative as there are the positive efforts (yes, both modern ones). I've read too many recent (past two years) articles about taking species off the Endangered list because they are getting harder to locate in their ranges... gee, wonder why. Google if you're bored.

Most of the effective conservation programs I have looked at are not run by our government, but by concerned private and public persons. Just one person's subjective observation....

 

[panthercham]

For a perspective on why Madagascar would even consider such a fundraising opportunity, see Chapter 9 of Lords and Lemurs by Allison Jolly. It is a pity that debt is/was considered desirable in modern culture. I saw a related bumper sticker yesterday: "Debt is Normal, Be Weird".

As for America's modern approach to preservation of species, I suspect there are as many examples of the negative as there are the positive efforts (yes, both modern ones). I've read too many recent (past two years) articles about taking species off the Endangered list because they are getting harder to locate in their ranges... gee, wonder why. Google if you're bored.

Most of the effective conservation programs I have looked at are not run by our government, but by concerned private and public persons. Just one person's subjective observation....

How true that its the private and public that take the reins and lead by example. Steve Irwin (Crocodile Hunter) was one of those leaders that bought up large chunks of land in Australia, US and Fiji in the hope of conserving what we have so its not lost. More people need to lead like that even if its on a small scale. I just watched the documentary An Inconvenient Truth and it rang so true.

 

[Sang]

well, like i said, for a 99 year lease, @ 12ish USD an acre.. i would love to create some kind of reserve for a few thousand acres.

 

[panthercham]

well, like i said, for a 99 year lease, @ 12ish USD an acre.. i would love to create some kind of reserve for a few thousand acres.

So would I but I truly believe that 1 or a few individuals cant do it alone. It takes a shift in societies thinking and pressure put on governments and corporations to really make the difference.

 

[Sang]

well think of it.. say 100 members, each bought 120 dollars worth of land..

thats a damn big bit of land...

i wish i could organize something, or know were to even begin organizing something of that sort.

 

[panthercham]

well think of it.. say 100 members, each bought 120 dollars worth of land..

thats a damn big bit of land...

i wish i could organize something, or know were to even begin organizing something of that sort.

very true...it is going to take a lot of people doing a little bit. I would be in for sure if it could be organized