yemen Chameleon Problems-Help!

RHANMOZZ

New Member
Hi all

This is my first time Posting a Thread and I have major problems that I just cant seem to find the answers to.Ive searched everywhere including this site. I'm getting nowhere with the vet and even though my Cham is holding out great despite the problems, I need to act fast before things reach beyond repair. There is so much cross information out there it could be anything- pot luck if you get it right. Does anyone out there have any suggestions for me please? This is a long shot but some1 might know something. Thanks

Species = Yemen Chameleon(Veiled Cham)
Sex = Male
Age = Unsure approx 11 months
weight = 140g, did reach 152g with treatment and feeding.
Size Snout -Vent = 7 inch approx


Cage type = Wooden roof ,sides top and bottom,front 4mm plastic double doors(perspex ?).vented well,fake vines/plants one live hibiscus recently added.
Size = width 19.5" x length 30" x heigth 36".
substrate = none. Did have sand-removed because of eating it, then bark for humidity but removed hygene reasons.
Basking = 83/90f
Ambient temp = ranging from 75-80f in levels
Lighting = 40w reflector bulb (house type) 12hrs a day
UVB = compact spiral/coil 10% uvb exa terra repti glo. 12hrs a day
Humidity = 40-50%
Water Supply = home made dripper dripping at all levels caught in tray, cleaned daily,
Misting = Once daily in morning
Feeding = Not eating since march so force feeding liquid foods from approx may for 2months till now.now trying 1x medium locust or flies etc. vet recomended reducing food as hes over weight. Ate 1 locust by himself yesterday.Poor attempt though.
Supplements = Vet recomends, Critical formula,liqiud calci with d3 0.14ml daily,
Medication = currently on lactulose 1drop daily to protect liver while on diet to reduce weigth.Was on metacam for 2months. Was on flagyl+macrobyl for 2weeks.I stopped the calci + d3 yesterday as Im unsure with the D3 issue. looking for liquid calci wo/d3.calci dust for now.


The following is my personel record of the situation that ive done over the weeks and I hope it will make sense to atleast someone out there.


Treated with flagyl ( 0.1ml daily) marbocyl 1% ( 0.14ml every 48hrs) lactulose ( 1 drop twice daily)
metacam (drop every 48hrs) critical care (3.5ml daily) from 4.5.11 till 24.5.11( no improvement).
Added treatment Calci+D3 (0.14ml daily) 20.5.11 on going.
Treatment 3.6.11 lactulose (3 drops daily in morning) critical care ( 1.5ml daily)
metacam (drop every 48hrs) calci + D3 ( 0.14ml daily) Locust (1x medium daily).
Treatment 24.6.11 lactulose(1 drop daily in morning) calci d3 (0.14 daily)
Critical care (1.5ml with 0.5water daily) locust(1xmedium daily,1 day veg alone)
Treatment 27.6.11 will try locust(1xmedium/large).Calci dust daily, calci d3 every 2weeks+multi vit.


1st Stool sample negative.
Front left paw failure/paralys symtoms but with grip 26.5.11.
Hard Lump on rear right leg knee,large moveable lump on rear right leg shin 25.6.11.
X-ray in Mid may 2011.Symptoms of blockage and growth.
Surgery results of no blockage of bowels, seems to be pressure from fat stores due to being over weight, organs normal, still orange crystals in urine dated from january 2011.
Blood test done.bloods ok, uric acid ok, calci ok, Suffered with MBD and fractures in past care, bones still good but need improving.Watery stools and blood from 2nd treatment of panacur.
Treated for pinworm X3 dose panacur 0.15ml 2weeks apart.3rd done on 24.06.11.
Stools improved when reduced lactulose but still blood.
2nd Stool sample taken for coccidia and worms,negative 24.6.11
3rd stool sample sent to pathology to check urine crystals,blood in fecal ect 27.6.11.
Pressure appearing in lower spine with discomfort or deformity?-unknown cause 20.6.11,Possible D3 Excess,Hypercalcify or tumour or still MBD.Tongue problem noticed when attemp to shoot 27.6.11.
Attempt shoot but failed 5x.Tongue shooting 1"short and slight weaking. Moved closer but still 1" short.Got real close then succeded.
Possible MBD/VIT A or eye problems due to compact uvb.Changing uvb coil for tube.
 
recommendations

1. get him in the sun. take him outside for as long as you can each day.
2. since you are force feeding. i would mix in a pinch of herptivite with your concoction.
3. you are already aware. id disco the coil for a linear.
4. keep basking needs to stay around 90*.
5. ask the vet for plain liquid calcium or you can purchase this online or at pet shop. start administering this. as long as you have proper lighting and or can get your chameleon outside.

pics of the cham.

they have found that d3 absorption is more efficient through the skin versus supplements. so even with d3 supplements and with wrong lighting. all the liquid calcium he was receiving his body was probably not benefiting from it properly.

i don't see any vitamins in a gutload or supplements regiment .
 
Please post some photos.

Please check the Critical Care stuff you are using to see if there is prEformed vitamin A (acetate, retinol, etc.) in it or D3, meat or phosphorus.

You should be able to get liquid calcium sandoz or calcium gluconate at a pharmacy. Be careful administering it to the chameleon since its syrupy and hard for them to swallow. Ease a little in at a time.

Orangey urates can indicate that you need to hydrate the chameleon more...and with all the other things that he's taking, it wouldn't hurt anyhow.

If he hasn't been eating since March, is he still fat??

Before the vet recommended the supplements s/he said to use, what specific supplements were you using and how often for each?
What specifically did/do you gutload/feed the insects with?
What's the calcium/D3 that you are using now??

Since MBD is so prevalent with chameleons, I usually post this information with the hope that it will help explain things....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it. At that size you only need to feed it every two or three days. Feed it enough that it doesn't get fat (and, of course, doesn't get thin either).

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium). Not sure how to tell you to dust WC insects if that is what you will be doing.

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
 
Thanks for the reply's.

I do have xray pics of cham,I will try and post it with this message. Unsure how to work this site but i will try. The xray is a puzzler- see if you can work it out.
No blockage as he passes stools, no coccidia.did find 1 pinworm and was treated and passed hardly any. The urine is whitish but does have crystals resembling what i can only describe as the 'orangy traffic cone sand'. Its like grit in it. I'm still waiting for the 3rd stools results-they should tell me what this grit in urine is and why hes passing blood. Is 140g for a 11month old 7" snout to vent male cham fat then?
I'm starting to think hes better off having food to get the calci down him as hes eating out of my hand now. I dont want 2 force feed him anymore if he eats alone so to get the calci down him I got to feed him a decent amount an not 1 medium locust(1") and critical care formula.
Ive changed the light to a repti glo tube one and his basking is 85+.
Vetark Liquid calci alone is orderd and on its way but i calci dust locusts for now. I have nutrobal which is a complete duster so he'll have that also.
we dont get much of a summer in wales valleys but hes been out in it the last 3days, its often too windy where I am.
Critical formula = The product is a high energy mixture of short chain maltodextrins and a protein concentrate supplemented with amino acids. vet said to give him this till me eats again. The cham has a history of 4months neglet and was moved to share a viv with a sub adult beardie in desperation.
He stuffed himself silly for a month and appeared to have recovered from the almost dead. After 1 month with beardie I recieved him but within one month with me he stopped eating. No sympoms of any sort just a lively nice coloured happy cham,drinking fine and acting normal. Approx 1 month+ of anorexia and its a trip to the vet. In comes the meds as you can see in my opening thread and things are starting to change slowly.
Now I have bigger problems than what I strated with.
Here are some pictures for you to work out. I hope ive attached then right
Thank you all for helping me, .
 

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I don't think there are many on here qualified to read xrays, myself included. But what I can see is that bone density is not terrible, but not great either - the distal legs and toes don't show up well (they should be as bright as the spine). More natural sun and calcium is a must. There is a great deal of ingesta/fecal material in his bowel. When was his last bowel movement, how often does that normally happen and what does it look like?

Something else that concerns me is his tarsal joints (ankles) appear very bright I the VD view. See how they different they look from the top front leg ankle joint? Can't really tell on the lateral... But bright joints could indicate the buildup of uric acid crystals in a condition called gout. Do any of his ankle joints appear swollen, hard or painful? If they don't it could be early stage.

Lungs look good but there is a large opacity in the caudal abdomen that I don't know if that is a normal organ or something abnormal. Also there's a kink in the caudal spine that seems abnormal.

The big blob right in the middle of the lateral radiograph (the 2nd one you posted) is the stomach full of food (the fluffy appearance is food). The liver looks like it might a little enlarges based on other rads of chams that I can find, but not so much that I'd be worried about it. The large bright blob basically at the level of the knees is intestines, and it looks weird compared to the other images I have. I'd like to know what kind of feces you're seeing and how often from this guy. With it being that bright I'd worried about impaction or a mass since it doesn't look like food filled intestines like the stomach does. If it were a girl I'd be worried about eggs, but it's definitely not a girl from your pic! Kidneys look okay I think.

Keep in mind I don't have much experience reading rads yet, and definitely not with exotics. I'm just using other images and references to try to guage what looks normal and what doesn't. If your vet needs more help I'd suggest they post them to VIN and see what the expert chameleon rad readers think!
 
Last edited:
Hi all,

To ferretinmyshoes and anyone els interesed, he has a fixed small hard lump on right rear knee and a moveable larger lump on same leg just above ankle. I did mention gout to the vet because it seemed to me to be so but bloods seem normal, uric acid levels normal ect and kidneys are normal looking, so the vet didnt suspect gout. Was treated for what he thought was an abcess on knee but shin lump then appeared so 'I' stopped treatment after 2weeks. Hmmm,Im thinking=(whitish urine with orange crystals like grit) What is that?. Anyway, Xrays do show passed fractures from previous neglect care and he does need to build his bones up. Vet gave me calci with vit d3. No improvement though. Infact he seems weaker and tongue shoots 1" short, which was fine till after all this and treatment. So Im giving calci w/o d3 daily and multi vit so often. Why is stomach swollen and he passes stools and no parasites? I force fed him peas and it took 4days to pass the pea shells,wasnt feeding him much then-vet said to diet him carefully. He does have fresh blood now in it but I suspect prolonged medication did this? Im puzzled? This is one for and ultimate expert. He stopped eating for some reason, then hes been dragged down by treatment and im guessing nutrient deficient now due to him being unable to absorb what I give him. But he stopped eating for a reason! And whats on the xrays? Surgery found no growths,but how do you take a good look from an 1.5inch opening? No ribs were cut during proceedure either which I was glad.
I'm feeding him more now and stools are daily with odd day nothing.They are pellet/dark,when I examine them I see fresh blood.(red juice) and allot of insect parts. Damaged intestines im guessing. Hes weak now.

What do you think?

Help!
 
I'm thinking the lumps in his arms and legs are from MBD. His body isn't misshapen so it could be his bones were starting to soften. Be sure to get him outside to get plenty of good sunlight and please exchange your squiggly UVB bulb for a reptisun 5.0 linear bulb. This should be placed about 8" on the top of his cage (screened of course) and his basking place should have full advantage of this bulb and a household 40 watt bulb situated so he gets about 85 degree heat in this spot. During the day after he warms up he can move around to cool down. The bottom of his cage should be about 75. The cage should be no less then 18" X 18" X 36" and all screen for good air circulation.

Supplementation should be plain calcium on his food every day (sprinkled lightly), calcium with D3 2x/month and herptivite (vitamines) 1X/month. You can find pictures of the most common brands all over the forums. Don't use these too heavily on your crickets (a good choice for basic feeders) as your cham will develop white powder coming out his nostrils. Doesn't do much, but that is how they get rid of the extra. A good way to tell you you're overdoing it.

Drippers are good for water as long as you empty the container the water drips into daily. Keep your container clean. My veileds like to poop into the water container. Go figure. I also mist them twice a day so they can clean their eyes. When they are outside they get a misting with the hose or I let the rain fall on them. They love it! They're urates are nice and white. The poop does tend to have cricket or super worm pieces in it sometimes. Oh well, we have corn and other stuff in ours. Just some roughage. LOL

Keep us posted.
 
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