When can you house Chams together?

I have always thought it was never, with exception of babies. But I have been reading and talking with some people and have heard differing oppinions. I have always kept my Chams sepreate...but would be interested in knowing if there are any species that can be housed as a community (aside form the little pygmies). I was told you can keep several female Panthers in together if the area is big enough. I know this seemes like a newb thing, but it is something I never thought about as I always wanted my Chams to have their own space.

Most chameleons should be out of each others sight no less in the same enclosure. Unless you have a room size enclosure thats heavily planted. Then you still have to watch for aggressive behavior.

It's species dependant, of course. some, like veileds, do very well in trios if conditions are right. Others, like some of the montane species, seem to do very poorly if kept completely isolated.

The key is space. One male veield wold be perfectly fine in a raised cage, about 2'x2'x3' high. You add a female to the mix, and you're looking at something 5-10 times that size - maybe more.

My male deremensis seemed to go nuts when housed out of visual contact from females.

When housed together, or at the very least near each other without a total visual barrier, they stopped roaming altogether.

Sometimes, housing them together is possible in relativly small cage - such as the case with breeding season deremensis. However, when breeding season is ending, and the females change their mood, you're going to need another cage. Strange thing is they might be ok for 6 months before she starts to let him know he's got to go.

It's really hard to know when things are good, acceptable, unacceptable or just plain dangerous. It's hard even with years of experience.

the "safe" answer is to say don't do it - after all, if you're new to the hobby, it's a very bad idea to try stuff like that. very bad. Things'll end up hurt or dead.

The main factor, is of course, space. Some species need more space than others, some individuals need more space than others. One male veiled I had needed a 12'x8'x8' outdoor cage to be housed with females. He was just too aggressive.

After a few months in the cage with two females, he learned to respect their visual cues. A smaller cage would have worked then - but not before.

You say "most" ... The question I am asking is which ones if any can be kept together. Are there no exceptions... even in females of certain species? I know that it is done... and have been to breeding facilities where numerous virgin females seem happy living together, while aggressive males are seperated. Now I know just because you see someone do something one way does not mean it is the right way, I am just curious when it can be done... casue I know there are a lot of very seasoned keepers out there that do have some kept together with no issues. I don't think I am ever going to house any of my chams together, I was just curious if there were any that could be housed together out of curiosity.

The only time I keep them together is during breeding attempts. I don't have room size enclosures. Chameleons don't heard in the wild they stay away from one another they are not a social animal. The only chameleons I would keep together are the small ground dwellers and then It would be in a decent size well planted enclosure.

Thanks Eric, That is along the lines of what I was looking for. Like I said I never hassled wih the 2 together thing. But I like thinking about this stuff.. .Because I have a 6'x'6'x12' outdoor enclosure I am going to be loading with different sized screen cages so I can try working with some new Chams. I am not new to the hobby by any means, but after about 10 years of keeping all kinds of Herps, decided to focus on expanding my hobby and focus mainly on CHams as they are my Fav. I enjoy asking basic questions like this to pick the brain of the people who are more seasoned than myself... There is always something new to learn.

Thanks Dean! Thats the reason I don't keep them together... You never see 2 chams hanging out together on a tree in the wild unless they are making babies.

Well....
actually there have been examples of a large group in the wild
that clung together up and into adulthood on the same tree (if memory serves).
Clutch mates clearly get along better than non-clutch mates

inter species aggression?
You bet! I lost a few panthers that got out / fell into the young veiled tub
there wasn't a spot that wasn't bitten on their dead bodies when I got home.
I called that clutch "the green street gang" from that time on.

generally speaking.
"it depends", some individuals get along great
others don't... but they have to grow up with each other
to have the best chances of making it work out.
and then, you've got to watch them!

Jeweled... That was pretty sad about those poor panthers... but... "Green Street Gang" ,LOL Crazy little Gangster Veileds Don't take Kindly to Panthers on their Turf...

One that I have seen done a lot is multiple female panthers together... What are your thoughts on that... The guy I knew had 2 Females (1 Nosy and 1 Sambava I think?) in a 2x2x4 screen. He insisted that they were totally peacefull with eachother and showed no aggression. They were both healthy... But I still don't know if I would try that.

Eric,

Did i read that correctly that some montanes do poorly alone? I guess i need start another thread to discuss but wanted to be sure iread this correctly

Sean

(i may need to buy lots more ChamsLOL)

Montane chams can be kept together? So what if one kept fishers chams and usambara 3 horned chams together?

treedupfromtheseedup said:

Montane chams can be kept together? So what if one kept fishers chams and usambara 3 horned chams together?

Click to expand...

There is no single answer to this question. Too many variables! The cage size, how you set up the climbing, basking, hiding areas and the plants, the age and gender of the chams, plus their individual personalities. Plus, how well you know the signs of stress and health problems in these species. I would not do this if I hadn't kept these particular species before. Better safe than sorry.

I have personally kept one male deremensis in the same LARGE cage with one male fischeri multituberculatum and they were OK. The cage was 6'x5'x4' in size and really crammed with foliage. When I first got them they were housed in this large cage divided down the middle. I hadn't planned on the fischeri- he was a rescue. The deremensis was already settled in and healthy. Over time I noticed that the fischeri kept pushing past the divider as he roamed all available space. I watched for interactions and finally took the barrier out when they seemed OK. I think it worked because there was enough space for both chams to choose basking areas, to feed and drink out of view of the other, and because the deremensis used different areas of the cage than the fischeri did. But, the fischeri was very very active and the deremenesis was very sedentary. Too small a cage and one would annoy or stress the other.