What happens to the ugly chams?

Every breeder and ad I see is offering "Screamers" "Studs" and "Smoking" chameleons with "Amazing Potential" from "awesome bloodlines". Where do the lackluster chams go? Some kind of secret culling facility? If some chameleons have amazing potential, others must have no potential right? Does this go on their report card?
I'm very confused.

Thats a real good question.
I think Julirs said she has other babies that are special needs due to something,....
Like to see the answers to this thread.

ever heard of the short bus....just kidding I've been on the short bus way too many times But they probably get sold as just pets...most will be sold as "amazing" even if the breeder knows they wont. But most large scale breeders will only breed the "beautiful" ones....but then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder...to each its own. My dizzy is not the most gorgeous sambava I have ever met, his resting colors are fairly drab...but stick him in front of a female, and he is a completely different lizard...sorta like the ugly duckling...but he can do it more than once ...but to make a long answer short...I don't know...so what was the question again....?

i'd say it depends on if its a big breeder or a small breeder, but I would assume that all the "screamers" etc. etc. are sold online to the bigger enthusiasts and the less than par chameleons goto pet stores.

I'm sure some pet stores get pretty good looking chameleons from clutches that a home breeder may sell to them because they don't have means to sell them online.

I have a pet store veiled that I think looks gorgeous but he was from a home breeder who only had one pair and sold them all directly to the pet store.

I have a few "special needs" babies that have healed leg breaks due to them being in the same enclosure with many siblings-there were 69 in that clutch after all, and even though they were in 3 tubs, then 3 cages, they still had moments of grabbing and stomping each other. It is barely noticeable in most, but they are not perfect. There colors are just as stunning though as their perfect brothers and sisters, so they are finding good homes. I think even the lackluster Panthers are beautiful, as well as the Veileds. I adore my Oustalets, who are pretty "plain" in comparison.

I've never seen an ugly Cham.

The same thing that happens to ugly people,they stay home.
Seriously,every breeder thinks they have the best breeders.
I can only speak for my self and what I do. I breed only the best representative of each locale and I pair up certain pairs and breed the male with the same female exclusively. That way I can predict with good certainty what you will be getting.Genetics are a funny thing and anything is possible,but this method has worked pretty well for me so far. Lots of my clutches are 95-100% survival rate.Good genetics play a part in this.
I sell plenty of chameleons that are outstanding,but you can't keep all of them. I have bought other chameleons from other breeders and I have only been dissapointed twice as far as the chameleon being a representative of the sire. I would assume the less desirable ones end up as a pet or sold to pet stores.Sometimes those "ugly chameleons" look pretty good when fired up!

Ryan Jarosek said:

I've never seen an ugly Cham.

Click to expand...

I agree with Ryan. EVERY cham is beautiful to me in his/her own way.

Ryan Jarosek said:

I've never seen an ugly Cham.

Click to expand...

Well clearly if all these breeder's chameleons are exceptional and beautiful, ones that are dull and average must exist.

Ha ha I was mostly just taking a potshot at all of these ads hyperbole. I see great humor in it, as I do with most marketing materials. No offense to anyone in particular, these are the things that keep me up at night.

I'd just love to see an ad that went:

Pretty run of the mill ambilobe from who knows where, could be a hybrid for all I know. Its not like I can identify what the mother really is, I just have to assume the scumbag on kingsnake that sold her to me isn't a liar or an idiot. Here's a picture of the "sire", its either that or a picture I stole off of google. Anyways, it will probably end up looking halfway decent, who knows. Its 3 months old and they all look the same to me.
$299

Chuck G said:

The same thing that happens to ugly people,they stay home.

Click to expand...

From what ive seen the ugly people actually pair up and reproduce, its the animal instict in then, should be stopped! lol

chequepoint said:

Well clearly if all these breeder's chameleons are exceptional and beautiful, ones that are dull and average must exist.

Ha ha I was mostly just taking a potshot at all of these ads hyperbole. I see great humor in it, as I do with most marketing materials. No offense to anyone in particular, these are the things that keep me up at night.

I'd just love to see an ad that went:

Pretty run of the mill ambilobe from who knows where, could be a hybrid for all I know. Its not like I can identify what the mother really is, I just have to assume the scumbag on kingsnake that sold her to me isn't a liar or an idiot. Here's a picture of the "sire", its either that or a picture I stole off of google. Anyways, it will probably end up looking halfway decent, who knows. Its 3 months old and they all look the same to me.
$299

Click to expand...

LOL-that is toooo funny-and unfortunately more true then we care to realize. That is why it pays to KNOW YOUR BREEDER! Reputation is everything!

That's the beauty of advertising. You can call a turd popsicle a holdback if you want, who's to say it's not.

Most marketing is a lot of hype-bull, IMHO. I have never seen an ugly chameleon either. But I have seen a few that were slightly less pigmented than others, maybe slightly smaller and one that had a kink in her tail.

SO WHAT. Not everyone is that hung up on looks. Many people think chameleons are awesome creatures generally. Some people are perfectly satisfied with the normal beauty and interest these creatures supply. I have had both top notch exceptional chameleons and normal (still lovely) chameleons - I thought the were equally wonderful. Just like I loved my mixed heritage mutt dog when I was a kid - I didnt give a rats behind that she wasnt a pure breed.

For those people who do care, who want the flashiest thing going, well luckily that description does fit a lot of chameleons. This is because most reputable breeders breed the flashiest "best" looking chams they have, and hence most babies will inherit accordingly and thus not be total dullards. Those who want the truly exceptional chameleon should be careful in selecting their breeder, and should pay top dollar.

chequepoint said:

I'd just love to see an ad that went:

Pretty run of the mill ambilobe from who knows where, could be a hybrid for all I know. Its not like I can identify what the mother really is, I just have to assume the scumbag on kingsnake that sold her to me isn't a liar or an idiot. Here's a picture of the "sire", its either that or a picture I stole off of google. Anyways, it will probably end up looking halfway decent, who knows. Its 3 months old and they all look the same to me.
$299

Click to expand...

TOO FUNNY. I'll give you $50 plus shipping for him

Good question and topic, but keep in mind, most chameleons from breeders are sold before they really know what they're going to look like. It's hard to look at a 2" SVL panther and know that it's going to be a dud or a stud.

From the breeders with wholesale connections (that sell to pet stores) Rocky was pretty right in that the "lesser" ones typically would go to the pet stores or wholesale priced groups (at least that's what I did, if I was able to pick out the lesser ones). I would always make an effort to send what appeared to be the best animals to people I knew from forums or past customers paying full retail price etc, although at 2" SVL, it didn't mean much. "Lesser" adults were simply sold at a lower price than real nice ones.

Also, I think that a big part of how any chameleon's colors turn out has more to do with proper care than people think. It's amazing what a fresh set of lights and good watering can do for a veiled or panther that has a "dark" or uncolorful general appearance.

i agree with you guys, to be truthful with you, i am very doubtful that i was given solid information about my chams when i purchased them, but they are both turning out to be beautiful and i can at least verify my male as being a correct local from his coloration. Unfortunately we really a lot on trust in this hobby and not everyone is as honest as we are.

chequepoint said:

Pretty run of the mill ambilobe from who knows where, could be a hybrid for all I know. Its not like I can identify what the mother really is, I just have to assume the scumbag on kingsnake that sold her to me isn't a liar or an idiot. Here's a picture of the "sire", its either that or a picture I stole off of google. Anyways, it will probably end up looking halfway decent, who knows. Its 3 months old and they all look the same to me.
$299

Click to expand...

could parts of this be a jab at someone who showed up here recently?....LMAO

Dsignrguy said:

could parts of this be a jab at someone who showed up here recently?....LMAO

Click to expand...

haha, don't name any names, its rude!

But I do think that is a creative ad and quite fitting for some.

My veiled Fred is from Petsmart. No idea who he came from as far as mom and pop goes. He colors up nice when mad. My Panther, Steve, is quite impressive, and so are his parents. I like both these chams just the same.

I wasn't taking a jab at anyone in particular. Just everyone =) And someday if I ever have chams for sale, I'm sure i'll make a goofy ad worth making fun of. Almost every breeder I have talked to on here has been exceptionally nice, and for the most part they seem like good people. I was just reading the classifieds and realized that nobody was selling any ugly chameleons, and that struck me as funny.

some breeders only breed the same male to the same female, or the same male to diff females.

if you breed same male to same female you dont need to hold any " screamers " back to keep the lines going, or just to produce more. so you can sell more of the clutch off early, instead of paying to raise.

but if you arent breeding the same pair over and over, then you sell a portion of the babies ( like tyler said no way to tell whats really going on so its a crap shoot, could be the best or the worst) pretty early on. you measure the cost of raising X number or chams vs the pay off of raising them up a little to get a better idea of coloration and breeding them

what ever makes sense to you determines what you'll let go, again its still pretty hard to know whos gunna be the " best". raise whatever you have up and see who colors up to your liking, then sell what ever you're not going to use for breeding. as " holdbacks " lol