URI treated now gular edema...

So Jamil has just finished his cycle of meds for his URI but now he seems to have an slight issue with gular edema. I'm wondering what might have caused it and possibly any ideas for treating it. Also are there any good feeders that help with the treatment.

Cage specs.

All screen enclosure with the following dimensions 3l x 2w x 3h . The cage is furnished with a ficus and lighting is supplied naturally. Heat is provided by a 25 watt bulb with the hottest basking location measured at 85 F. Water is supplied by a dripper with three supplemental mistings a day. There are very large populations of houseflies in my location so they've been my primary feeders for the past 3 weeks. Flies are dusted with calcium only once a week for my adults.

Sorry about the blurry pic i'm just getting to know my camera. Edward Kim

Howdy Edward,

As you've probably seen from Googling "Gular Edema" and Chameleon, there are several reasons that it can occur, including kidney failure. I've seen it happen from upside-down Ca/phosphorus ratios to just flat-out over supplementation. You really need to have your husbandry nailed-down to eliminate the more common causes to find the less common ones that a Vet can detect through blood tests etc.

P.S. I'd love to get a sample of his poop under my microscope to see if any parasite problems can be detected from eating wild flies. Wild flies are often talked about as a potentially large source of parasites. If you are ever going to be near Manhattan Beach, bring me poop! . That goes for anyone else too. My door is always open to parasites confused. I'm certainly no expert by any means but I do have a decent trinocular microscope with a camera adapter and can shoot photos of what pops-up in a silver nitrate fecal float (I make rootbeer floats too) as well as direct smears. I also stayed in a Holiday Inn last night .

How do you mean "lighting is supplied naturally" ??

Smitty

During the weekdays they all get roughly 4 to 5 hrs of natural light through a window that does not absorb UVB. On the weekends if the weather permits i usually leave them outside.

Dave,

I also got a fecal test done a week ago from my vet that came up negative for all my chameleons. If you still want to check it just for kicks i'm sure we could arrange something.

Edward

Thanks for the laugh Mr. Weldon...

Thanks for the laugh Mr. Weldon! I would take Dave's offer for a parasite check. They are not always caught on just one fecal check. Some parasites shed cysts, segments, etc. on a cyclical basis. A fecal check may be done during the inactive period where nothing is being shed. Another done a week or so later may catch the parisite during the period in their cycle where you can actually see something. I usually wait to call a reptile parasite free for sure until three clean checks are done. Especially if there are noticeable health issues.

Edema is usually caused by oversupplementation. Montanes seem to be very susceptible. I would suggest , back off supplements other than Calcium without D3 and push lots of water . I would consider feeding silkworms and butterworms for their high water content.

Dave Weldon said:

Howdy Edward,

As you've probably seen from Googling "Gular Edema" and Chameleon, there are several reasons that it can occur, including kidney failure. I've seen it happen from upside-down Ca/phosphorus ratios to just flat-out over supplementation. You really need to have your husbandry nailed-down to eliminate the more common causes to find the less common ones that a Vet can detect through blood tests etc.

P.S. I'd love to get a sample of his poop under my microscope to see if any parasite problems can be detected from eating wild flies. Wild flies are often talked about as a potentially large source of parasites. If you are ever going to be near Manhattan Beach, bring me poop! . That goes for anyone else too. My door is always open to parasites confused. I'm certainly no expert by any means but I do have a decent trinocular microscope with a camera adapter and can shoot photos of what pops-up in a silver nitrate fecal float (I make rootbeer floats too) as well as direct smears. I also stayed in a Holiday Inn last night .

Click to expand...

Hahaha... Next time im in the area I shall give you a ring...

Did you keep the chameleon well-hydrated during the course of antibiotics?
Antibiotics can be hard on the kidneys...don't know if that could be a reason for the gular edema or not since I'm not a vet...but I thought I would mention it so you could ask your vet.

Maybe Dr. Wheelock could tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree?

Edward Kim said:

Dave,
I also got a fecal test done a week ago from my vet that came up negative for all my chameleons. If you still want to check it just for kicks i'm sure we could arrange something...

Click to expand...

Howdy Edward,
Yep. Anytime you're in town and I'm in town, I'll be ready to check-out the poop!

Hey y'all,

Gular edema is not a small problem.

Obviously many problems can cause it. Hypercalcemia (secondary to oversupplemation of D3) is a common cause. Also renal failure and other organ failure (like the liver) can be a cause. Any problems that result in the first 2 problems are causes.

Mountane species are fairly susceptable to oversupplementation of multivitamins. They are also more susceptible to dehydration and the secondary effects of this.

Yes, certain antibiotics are harder on the kidney and liver than others (so overhydration while on them is pretty important). If the kidneys are shutting down, that is not so good. Baytril is often used for URI but can sometimes cause problems (I am not opposed to using it. In fact ,my own cham is on it right now every other day for an infection on his casque.)

Back to topic though, I worry when I see these animals with this condition.

My questions are-
Is the cham getting unfiltered sunlight? (Please describe the specific type of glass window that does not filter the UVB)
Is the cham getting supplemented with calcium with D3 or just calcium?
What type of gutload and what type of insects do you feed?
How old is your supplements if any? (How often do you rotate?)
UVB lighting?

If money is not too much of an issue, I might have your vet do a minimum bloodwork looking at renal function (Ca ratio)

Good luck,
Matthew

Dr. Wheelock,

The glass window was not treated with a UV filter coating. I understand that the glass could still filter out UV rays so I recently installed two zoo med 5.0 bulbs. I supplement with calcium without the D3 two times a week for my adults and 4 times a week for my juveniles. The supplements are less than a year old. I've been feeding them wild caught flies roughly for a month now but will change that to crickets once the fly supply goes down. I will definitely get some blood work done if the swelling gets worse.

Dave,
I'm going to plan a surf fishing trip around the redondo area in the following weeks maybe I could drop off the poopy then.

Thanks everyone for your greatly appreciated advice...Edward Kim

Edward Kim said:

Dave,
I'm going to plan a surf fishing trip around the redondo area in the following weeks maybe I could drop off the poopy then...

Click to expand...

Howdy Edward,
That would work just fine! I used to surf fish once in a while at Torrance Beach. I mostly fished the Manhattan Beach Pier in my youth. I put in a few thousand hours out there fishing for Thresher shark, Yellowtail, and the usual misc. It's been years...

Edward Kim said:

So Jamil has just finished his cycle of meds for his URI but now he seems to have an slight issue with gular edema. I'm wondering what might have caused it and possibly any ideas for treating it. Also are there any good feeders that help with the treatment.

Cage specs.

All screen enclosure with the following dimensions 3l x 2w x 3h . The cage is furnished with a ficus and lighting is supplied naturally. Heat is provided by a 25 watt bulb with the hottest basking location measured at 85 F. Water is supplied by a dripper with three supplemental mistings a day. There are very large populations of houseflies in my location so they've been my primary feeders for the past 3 weeks. Flies are dusted with calcium only once a week for my adults.

Sorry about the blurry pic i'm just getting to know my camera. Edward Kim

View attachment 2149

View attachment 2150

Click to expand...

What the heck is a gular edema? When i saw kidney failure it interested me because the vets suggest that might be what is causing my cham's eye problems

Hey Bucky,
Guler edema is swelling around the throat and neck area. One cause is possible kidney failure as another cause is over supplementation of vitamines. Hope this clears up things for you.

Thx,well...nothing to do with my buddy But,do you know anything that can help with white stuff on his eyes,what can cure this? This has been hanging over the poor guys head for a long time,i get sad everytime i see a pic of a beutiful happy cham,i really wanna help the guy!