trioceros

hello ,i'm new and i'm italian!and i'm not speak english very well!
i like very much the chamaeleo trioceros!
which is the trioceros that stay(at night) at low temperature?
in winter some trioceros can stay at 41°F at night?

thank you very much!
excuse me for my not perfect english!!

excuse me but i can't write in chamaelo trioceros forum!

trioceros93 said:

hello ,i'm new and i'm italian!and i'm not speak english very well!
i like very much the chamaeleo trioceros!
which is the trioceros that stay(at night) at low temperature?
in winter some trioceros can stay at 41°F at night?

thank you very much!
excuse me for my not perfect english!!

Click to expand...

Hi, and welcome to the forums. I'm not sure why you can't write on the Trioceros forum, but perhaps a moderator will comment.

Is that a female jacksonii jacksonii on your profile picture? What species do you keep?

There are many species of Trioceros that can withstand temperatures in the 40s, or even lower, for short periods of time at night, so long as they are able to warm up to suitable temperatures during the day. These include high-elevation hoehnelii, jacksonii and others in the bitaeniatus complex.

Ciao,

Fabián

thank you for your answer!
I like very much jacksonii,johnstonii,deremensis!and (is not a trioceros) kinyongia fischeri!
which is the easier?

thank you

Then I have bad news for you: It's not so easy to get those species here in Europe espacially the johnstoni !
Try to search for bitaeniatus or sternfeldi, they are much easier to get

is there any mountain chamaeleo that needs a 72s-78s(at night) temperature?
in italy there are some jacksonii and deremensis!
il like very much the trioceros deremensis!

thank you

Trioceros,

I am raising a clutch of deremensis at the moment, and I can tell you that they are the hardiest ("easiest") of the species you mentioned. They would do very well in the low 70s, and can take very low and relatively high temperatures for short periods of time. As long as you can find healthy deremensis, I would recommend them certainly over johnstoni.

Here is a thread where you can follow some discussions about deremensis:

CH Chamaeleo (T.) deremensis

Feeding deremensis

Ciao,

Fabián

excuse me but i don't understand!
are more easiest the deremensis or the johnstoni(they must are cb and aren't wc!)
thank for the links!
in my town there is(in summer) on the day 96-100s and at night 74-82s!(in my bedroom)! can i put some ice in the terrarium at night so that the temperature is for some hours 70-74s?

thank you

trioceros93 said:

excuse me but i don't understand!
are more easiest the deremensis or the johnstoni(they must are cb and aren't wc!)
thank for the links!
in my town there is(in summer) on the day 96-100s and at night 74-82s!(in my bedroom)! can i put some ice in the terrarium at night so that the temperature is for some hours 70-74s?

thank you

Click to expand...

Sorry I'll keep it simple.

T. deremensis are easier to keep than johnstoni, in my opinion.

Captive-bred is better than wild-caught, but captive-bred are more rare.

70˚- 80˚F is ideal (the best), but they can take 85˚ to 90˚F for SHORT PERIODS of time (NOT recommended).

I keep mine at around 70-76˚F during the day, and 60-65˚ at night. In the winter, they are kept 50-60˚ at night.

Do you understand?

trioceros93 said:

in my town there is(in summer) on the day 96-100s and at night 74-82s!(in my bedroom)! can i put some ice in the terrarium at night so that the temperature is for some hours 70-74s?

Click to expand...

No ice. You cannot keep montane chameleons in those temperatures, unless you have air-conditioning (climate control) inside. If you want to keep johnstoni, jacksonii or deremensis, you must have LOW temperatures at night. 70-74 is too high.

calyptratus and pardalis are better for you...

in summer i' m going to put the chamaeleo in a romm where is 68-72s! it's ok?
but in autumn,winter,spring i am going to put it in a romm where is 63-67s!
i don't like very much caliptratus!

trioceros93 said:

in summer i' m going to put the chamaeleo in a romm where is 68-72s! it's ok?
but in autumn,winter,spring i am going to put it in a romm where is 63-67s!
i don't like very much caliptratus!

Click to expand...

If you can be sure you'll be able to get those temperatures, then yes, deremensis will be fine.

How will you bring the temperature down? You said:

trioceros93 said:

and at night 74-82s!(in my bedroom)!

Click to expand...

For deremensis, a very cool period during winter is absolutly necessary. They go without food and use up their fat stores durig this period.

When I was not able to provide a cool night drop durig the winter, they all died within two years with fatty liver disease.

how long during this period?it's ok a 40-46s temperature in this period?
they don't eat during this period?

thank you

Hi,

For keeping montane species the lower temperatures are very important. I have experienced over the past years that for long term keeping that is essential. One person I knew was able to keep jacksonii xantholopus without a big nightdrop and the only species where I experienced that they dit not need the big drop was bitaeniatus (Tanzania form) (I kept them from 12 - 18 degrees celcius) they where the first montane species I bread succesfully about 10 yeas ago.

Further I try to keep al species lower as 17 degrees celcius.

My deremensis could handle hot temperatures for short period, and warm temps for extended periods - IF they had a cool night. They seemed to do fine wit warm days if they got a cool night.

I could not get my animals to live past 2 years. They were in perfect health, and just got slow, fat, stopped eating, and just dropped dead. I suspected the problem was in the temperatures. I was living in Raleigh, where hte summers were hot and the winters mild. The daytime temperatures were often warm in the room - 80's. At night, during the summer, the temps usually stayed warm, never below 70's.

The problem was in the winter - I was unable to get the temperatures down cool enough at night.

I moved ot the mountains, where it's always cool at night - even when it's 95 degrees in the summer, it'll be 65 degrees at night. I have to heat their room in winter. They seemed to thrive when night time temps were in the upper 40's-50's, as long as it warmed up during the day.

I allowed them to go through a really cool period for 2-3 weeks, then I increased the temps a bit. The daytime temps were cool too, 60's usually. They didnt' really do much - not so much eating, a little drinking. After I turned on their heat lamps (about the only time I used them), and the day temps went up into the 70's, they began to go nuts - red lips, increased activity, courtship, mating, etc. - usualyl after a week ro two of warmth and lots of food.

They would come out of the 3-4 weeks of cool temps much skinnier - they clearly lost weight. This was the key that I was doing something right. I could NEVER get deremensis to stay lean - no matter what I tried. The key was allowing them to survive off their body fat for a while at low temperatures. At higher temperatures, a hungry lizard doesn't simply burn its fat, as its body tries to store every bit of food it gets - further contributing to the liver problems!

By allowing them to fast, and lose the extra fat, I was able to keep them much longer - until some coccidia ruined it all. When my females developed eggs before, they filled the body cavity - 40+ eggs, they could barely move even with underdeveloped eggs! Most refused to lay their eggs - they died eggbound ( a big problem with the species).

The females that underwent a cool period developed much smaller clutches - 20-25 eggs, I think. One laid them, the other did not - she showed no signs of needing to lay eggs until I saw some laying on her cage floor.

There's theories why they don't lay the eggs themselves like they "should". Some thing they use a premade burrow from another animal. I wonder if they dont' have burrows themselves, like montium, for escaping the coldest nights. They seem to lay eggs when the keeper places them in a pre-constructed tunnel. So there's that possibility.

My problem was not being abel to really devote to them the time and effort needed. I always had everything just so close to being right - but never had luck getting eggs to hatch. Every female I've had did the same thing - they made no effort to dig, or even give me an indication that it was time. I found eggs popping out of them, and if they were able to lay them or not, they never hatched. All were fertile, but they went bad. too much time in the female.

I've promised myself that when I get into them again, I will not make the same mistakes. I think I've made them all, so I should be in good shape!

What time of year where the deremensis eggs laid? How long after they were mated did they lay the eggs??

I found that they seemed to prefer to lay eggs in "tight quarters" (small containers...up against the edge of something).

do they stay at 40s-50s for 3-4 weeks and in this period they don't eat?
thank!

I woudl say 2-3 weeks, and offer them food. They will eat during the day sometimes, but not much at all.

I think they all laid their eggs in June. I have kept an egg laying container with them, at all times, because I knew they woudlt' let me know when they needed one! But they never bothered to dig.

thank you for the answer
for you whose is the easiest mountain chamaeleon ? (jacksonii,quadricornis,fuelleborni,montium,johnstoni,and kinyongia fischeri and tavetanum)

thank