I been fielding a few calls from people in the last few months regarding
their animals health issues.

Specifically:
Lack of overall muscle tone
Tongue retraction issues (swallowed tongue?)
Chameleons not "shooting" but walking up and attempting to bit prey?

After looking around and speaking to another breeder(s)
we've of the opinion that these may be symptoms might stem from a lack of
bioavailable beta carotene in the animals diet.
As well as lack of B-Vitamins

Some of the common reptile supplements are lacking bioavailable beta carotene
While others have fully formed synthetic Vitamin A
(that isn't useable by the chameleon).
Thankfully, many pet stores and cricket breeders feed and ship their crickets
with some carrot slices making up for the absence.
However too many smaller pet stores don't drop a carrot into the holding containers.
leaving the door open for future problems as the feeders "pass" all the gutload as droppings
(nutritional value decline)

The best preventative is to make sure that your animals get their feeders
that have been well gut loaded on something like carrots and high b-vitamins
If you animal starts to show symptoms
you may wish to buy some beta-carotene (vitamin A) supplements.
make sure that the source of listed on the gelcaps isn't "Vitamin A" but beta-carotene.
vitamin A's precursor this can be applied directly to the feeders
be careful to not overdose.

needless to say UV Light is also very important -make sure those lights are under a year old!

I'm not 100% sure about this as of yet (double blind chameleon studies are lacking)
Just researched a bit and thought it would be best to pass it along before
anyone else has to experience a swallowed tongue (or worse).

Thoughts and comments welcome.

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"In Target earlier today I learned there is really no good way to answer a 5-year-old asking you why you are looking at his mother's butt so much..."

You said..."The best preventative is to make sure that your animals get their feeders that have been well gut loaded on something like carrots and high b-vitamins
If you animal starts to show symptoms
you may wish to buy some beta-carotene (vitamin A) supplements.
make sure that the source of listed on the gelcaps isn't "Vitamin A" but beta-carotene. vitamin A's precursor this can be applied directly to the feeders
be careful to not overdose."...you can not overdose on beta carotene.

True in human studies mammal studies
there is a negative feedback loop
so that the more that is processed the metabolites inhibit further enzyme conversion
However I wasn't 100% sure retarding herps and was playing it safe.

btw. I went out tonight shopping and located a $3.00 bottle of beta carotene
with vitamin D sourced from cod fish livers in the vitamin/ supplement section.

I picked it up just to add to the inventory of supplies.

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"In Target earlier today I learned there is really no good way to answer a 5-year-old asking you why you are looking at his mother's butt so much..."

Howdy,

I almost forgot about the vitamin B vs. tongue discussion a couple of months ago! You may have already referred to it but just in case .

Tongue Issue

Colin's comments about Vit-B and tongue issues were pretty intriguing. It'll make good data points if the keepers that you are in contact with try it out and let us know the results.

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See Ya,

Dave Weldon
Panther & Veileds

Book Collection:
"Reptile Medicine and Surgery" 2nd ed. By Mader
"Chameleons - Their Care and Breeding" By Linda J. Davison
"Chameleons - Nature's Hidden Jewels" 2nd Ed. By Petr Necas
"The Panther Chameleon: Color Variation, Natural History, Conservation and Captive Management" By Gary W. Ferguson...
"Thoughts for Food" 3rd Ed. Edited by Ardi Abate
"Understanding Reptile Parasites" By Roger J. Klingenberg D.V.M.

Thanks dave,

Yes I can see that the animals may be suffering from a form of Beriberi disease
It could explain what may be happening with the lowed reaction and tongue movements
someone might try mixing some green algae (spirulina tablets) into the diet
if one is concerned about dosing with a powdered b-complex vitamin.

I was speaking to someone that had a veiled with a slow tongue issue last week
this may have been the cause or part of the problem that can be easily fixed.
spirulina covers both the b-vitamins, amino acids and bioavailable beta carotene.


typical analysis (relative)
http://www.australianspirulina.com.a.../analysis.html
more info... breakdowns
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/v...roducts/2764/1

I think i'll get some bulk powder and start mixing it into the cricket gutload
If these animals aren't getting enough in their diet (old crickets)
then that would explain the problem.

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"In Target earlier today I learned there is really no good way to answer a 5-year-old asking you why you are looking at his mother's butt so much..."

Thanks guys. I posted a thread quite a while ago about this issue. I rescued a veiled who is having alot of tongue issues and the old vet had him on calcium for like 2 months and it didn't seem to be doing any good. i have noticed in the last week or so he does seem to be getting a little better and is just starting to drink on his own for the first time since i'v had him. It's kinda sad because he is having such a hard time trying to use his tongue to drink but at least he is doing it. I never thought of using vit b but that is exactly what i am going to do. That would probably explain why all of a sudden he is doing better. I do give all my chams vits and minerals 2 x a month, something he might not have had before and maybe now he is starting to get enough that it is making a difference. Well tomorrow i am going to get some vit b complex and try it for a week. I'll keep you informed and let you know how it goes. This would be a great way to test the theory considering he has never used his tongue since he has been with me which has been at least 2 months. I'll post again in 1 week.

Debby

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Beeger Boxes / Jungle Jewels....2.1 veileds,84 eggs,1.1 blue bar,25 eggs, 2.2 Nosy Be,1.0 Nosy Be x Blue Bar 33 eggs,1 ? Melleri, 2.1 Beardie,18 tortoises