Hmm, several issues? Petco chameleon rescue

[ChamieKeeper]

Chameleon Info:

* Veiled Female of unknown age. Owned it two weeks.
* Handling - once a week
* Feeding - gut loaded crickets and meal worms. How are you gut-loading your feeders?I feed them water pillows and zilla brand gut load cricket insect food. I feed 2 meal worms and two crickets a day.. from a dish tied to tree.
* Supplements - I bought a spray for the crickets but have not used it yet. I will be buying calcium & D3 and no D3 this week. (have not had the chameleon long)
* Watering - Mister in the morning and couple hours before bed. 5 minutes each. Do you see your chameleon drinking? Yes, every other misting.
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. black and white. 2 occasions, One runny and one normal. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? I don't know. (no?)
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. Purchased from "Petco" in a glass cage. I don't know age. She is 4-5" body length without tail. Very Very Very wide. she has "cankles".


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - she has been living in her own huge Ficus for the last few weeks. I just spent $$$ on a 18x18x36" all screen glass bottom cage today for her but have yet to set it up.
* Lighting - Unknown.. compact florescent (works on plants) bought from pet store had chameleons on box says UVB
* Temperature - 74-90* gradient between elevations? Lowest overnight temp? 72 How do you measure these temps? laser surface thermometer and also walmart remote digital thermometer
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? Never below 65% How are you creating and maintaining these levels? Humid apartment and dual daily misting. What do you use to measure humidity? digital walmart humidty gauge built into one of my temp gauges
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Ficus, 3' tall.
* Placement - Where is your cage located? in a bright window with the light as well. Is it near any fans. (yes, one ceiling fan that she already seems to be used to. air vents, (no) or high traffic areas? (no she has 8 hours a day to herself) At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? 4.5 feet max tree elevation (3'tree on a drum stool)
* Location - Where are you geographically located? California

Ok folks I did the forms now see if you can help me out. I'll grab a pic when she sleeping even though she seems nervous enough and wants more privacy as it is. I bought her a new cage today so will be fixing that tomorrow. I'll take pics.

We have two huge bumps perfectly in the same spot on either side of the head. Also, I saw some discharge when I first got her and heard her "sneeze!" (Do Chameleons do that?!) When she sleeps she is the "relaxed" light green color we all want to see. When awake she is a darker "aqua" color (not her angry purple but more like green blue with a yellow throat and black pinstripes)

I looks like I purchased me a sick "chamie". I guess I have to go bring her to the vet now, but would like some input anyways aside from that obvious fact.
I was not able to find any Veiled chameleons at the local reptile shops so I resorted to saving one from a tiny cage from petco.

Bonuses:
She will eat crickets and meal worms "off the tongs".
She will drink in front of me when I mist but is "apprehensive" about doing so. she would rather eat a bug than have water?

Other oddities:
She scratches at her eyes sometimes. They both seem mis-shaped slightly and sometimes after she scratches on them, they can be "baggy" but this goes away shortly after?! Sometimes she sleeps "dangling" one or two of her limbs?

My background:
I have other healthy Pygmy Chameleons and Hawaiin Micro Lobsters and Carnivorous Plants etc etc. They all seem OK but my little "Monkee the Veiled Chameleon" seems to require some assistance. I used to feed and water all the reptiles for a guy who supplied many retail reptiles stores and I have never come across a chameleon like this. She is great mannered! But seems to have many problems.

Eating proof, her favorite! Worms! haha

Climbing down for crickets and meal worms in her dish

Here's the lumps I'm mostly concerned with.

happily sleeping

New cage (fits entire tree!)

 

[kinyonga]

I would definitely take her to a vet.

I'm not a vet...this is just me thinking "out loud"...
She looks large enough to be sexually mature but she's not showing mature coloration. She looks fat enough to be gravid...but if so why isn't she showing any coloration that would indicate she is? Perhaps she was just overfed? IMHO its either edema around her throat area or a lot of fat...but you really need a vet to tell you. Her head pads are very fat which might go along with that. In the two pictures where she is hanging upside down she looks almost normal...so could that fat look when she's upside right be bloating??

Her arms and legs are good and straight from what I can see so she must have had enough nutrients for the growth....even it it has been a fast growth.

Is she pooping?

I really can't tell you what's going on for sure....but a good vet could do some tests and tell you.

 

[laurie]

Welcome to the forum & chameleon ownership. I agree you need to see a chameleon vet. You should take a fecal sample and have her checked for parasites.
But just a couple of things you can address, the long tube UVB lights are safer - the compact (swirly) ones have been know to cause eye problems. Mealworms are not a good feeder. Super worms are better for your chameleon. Also silk worms and dubia roaches. You need to gut load your feeders with leafy greens like kale, mustards greens, collard greens, and I use cricket crack -brand name - available on this forum from SSimsswiSS, one of our members. Do a search on gutloading and you will get loads of info.

Let us know how the vet visit goes.

 

[ChamieKeeper]

Wow thanks for the fast replies folks!
I have done a little reading around this forum and from the way it seems there is no substitute for a good vet.

Sounds good to me.

Hopefully they are able to help me out.

I will also take the other advice given closely.

I'm going to set up her cage today and give her a nice box with some digging space as well and see how she reacts to that. I cannot get her to a vet for another week or so maybe (need to wait for paycheck). Hopefully she will still be OK by then. It does look like the Edema or whatever it is in her shoulders may be slowing her down a bit or making her lazy.

Will definitely let you guys know. I think she has been eating tiny mealworms her whole life at the petco too. I saw a bunch of tiny ones in her feeder dish at the petco I bought her from. They probably had no idea and raised her on that alone. Also they left the shavings in the meal worms so maybe she ate some too.

Also she does take on slightly more coloration when she is awake, but when sleeping like in the photos above she turns bright green like she is happy.

Thanks again. Will report back when we get back from the vet ASAP. Will be a couple days but will surely take her in. Now I will do my research on Rep Vets in Los Angeles/Chatsworth area. I would definitely love to see her improve. She's got some great character. Will try to improve my feeders and gutloads as well and do more research there.

Oh yes, and change the lightbulb!

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy ChamieKeeper,

Here's your list of vets:

Attila Molnar, DVM
All Animals Medical Center, Calabasas, California - (818) 591-2773

Geoffrey Stein, DVM
Shipp's Animal Hospital, 351 Foothill Blvd., Beverly Hills - (310) 550-0101

Daniel Reimer, DVM
Adler Veterinary Clinic, North Hills, California - (818) 893-6366

Tom Greek, DVM
Greek & Associates Veterinary Hospital, 23687 Via Del Rio, Yorba Linda - (714) 463-1190 or (866) 940-7028
www.tomgreek.com

Also, toss a PM or email to Chamelisa through this forum. She is out your direction (Woodland Hills) and will be able to help you sort things out . She runs the non-profit Chameo.org.

 

[ChamieKeeper]

Wow many thanks you guys are very helpful!
We will get my lil girl back to good health it sounds like. I'm am happy for this.

Also, Forgot a daytime/morning picture. Here she is half hour after wake-up. More Aqua now than green and her stripes turn dark instead of white.
Time to mist her and get her cage setup. You can see she's a bit darker already just after waking up before I disturbed her at all. (besides shoving a camera in her face)

She also just shed only half of herself. You can kinda see the parts that she didn't shed. She shed like a circle on her sides.

 

[ChamieKeeper]

Well she's been transferred to her new home. I gave her a box and some "soft bed" course to dig around in if she would like. I put her in there first so she could check it out and know she has something to dig in for now until I can get her a sandbox. Also added some bamboo sticks in with her bendy vines and tree.

She seems to like it. I guess they don't need all that much. Now for a dripper and some healthy feeders, then a vet visit. Will include a fresh sample that she left for me in the digging box to let me know she cares. lol!
This looks slightly different than the last two, maybe insinuating worsening conditions.

 

[pssh]

That orange indicates dehydration. Up the misting a lot. Is there any actual feces or just the urate? When was the last time she passed actual feces?

Get her away from the mirror she will stress out seeing herself (most likely.)

 

[ChamieKeeper]

I fear the yellow/orange is the fecal part you are looking for. The white urate? in the photo are covered by a small chip of something in the temporary digging substrate I used.

She passed maybe 2-3 days ago as well. It was normal white and black. The one before that was more runny than solid. The feces seems to vary every time Last time she passed it was always black and white, but one solid and one not. Not this time it's kinda a runny yellow.

I'm trying to get together funds now for the vet visit and new lights.

Will do on the mirror. This was temporary for today while I set up her cage. I plan to keep her by the window mostly so she can get extra air and added UVB. The window does get sun for half the day.

 

[jamncristian]

UV doesnt pass through glass just to let you know

 

[Elizadolots]

Maybe she's getting used to all the new changes? My thinking is one weird poop does not a problem make. I'd keep an eye on it and see how future poop looks before deciding that's a problem.

 

[ChamieKeeper]

I believe the UVB should pass through the screen when I open the window for the fresh air part.
thanks for the help folks.

 

[pantherlover]

hey, id just get her an easily reachable basking spot so she can hang out closer to the light. its been mentioned you need a 5.0 tube uvb (changed every 6 months) keep in mind that uvb is significantly diminished when it passes through screen & cannot be a main source. ive also found that natural light through a window will confuse a cham & will search for heat from the sun as opposed to the basking light. people have cham keeping down to a science & it gets much more difficult if you sart to sway to much from the formula. As for basking, all you need is a clear glass incadescent house bulb. 40 to 60 watts will do the trick. i wouldnt suggest going any higher than 60watts unless your going to keep your light further away from the cage which will just make things more complicated finding the right temp. check out some pics of enclosures. ive got lots of great ideas from these forums. also check out some suppliment schedules on here. there are some great & poor care sheets out there but you will learn a tremendous amount if you just read along here. happy chaming!

 

[ChamieKeeper]

OK we have her back in her window corner now with a dripper and a cage water catch bag taped on.
Will do the 40w basking bulb and get the new UVB and feeders and their food.
To be continued.

Looks like she might be starting to cheer up some already. Once she learns that she now has a dripper I think it will help. I don't think she liked to drink in front of me although she had no probs eating in front of me.

You can really see how dark she gets when awake in this photo. Pretty sure she will be stressed for most of today with all the handling and new items. Oiy. Report back when I have more updates/fixes. Thanks everyone, really appreciate all the tips.

 

[ChamieKeeper]

Woot Time to see the Doc!

OK!
Received a few funds early to help my lil Monkee girl so she isn't suffering.

I scheduled an appointment with:

Attila Molnar, DVM
All Animals Medical Center, Calabasas, California - (818) 591-2773

:For Friday at 2pm.

Also, will pick up Reptisun 5.0 and fixture tomorrow as well as basking bulb.

Will report back Friday! I told them she might have edema and she sneezes and has nasal discharge!

We'll see how it turns out. This gonna cost me I bet. lol
Expensive lil lizard. I hope she likes me.

 

[ChamieKeeper]

Oiy forum keeps logging me out every time I Write a big posts and scares me thinking I lost the post. Have to figure out how to stop that nonsense! lol

Well had to reschedule the the appointment due to not having a ride today unless she wanted to ride in the backpack on the motorcycle.

So using better judgment we now have a Monday appointment.

But I did get a 50w heating bulb and a reptisun 16" UVB bulb on her that is not a spiral as directed here.

Also bought her a dripper.

Now for the interesting part. I figured out why she does not drink well!

She had been kept at petco for a long time with no dripper! The only form of water she had was a morning "spritz" with a spray bottle and standing water in a dish! She may have also been intaking water from her feeders!

I wash shocked to realize they have no dripper. And they have more chamies in there with no dripper now!

Anyways I spent a fortune on my "Monkee" today and I hope she is getting happier. The vet is next on Monday! And now she will be forced to learn to drink from a dripper and licking leaves! This dripper is much better than my home made cup dripper in that it holds more water and will drip at a nice slow rate all day for her until she figures it out. The cup method gets clogged and stops working right too easily. Better to have an adjustable nozzle!

Here's a picture now.
She's definitely stressed again after her new cage arrangements but that will settle soon as she explores I'm sure and no more changes for now. The fans and window don't seem to bug her at all, she is a very tame veiled, that's for sure! Once she is healthy again she will be an awesome chamie.
Oh I just watched her eat a leaf too! She is liking her tree. Maybe need a few more vines/perches.

Just for the heck of it, here is a picture of my "seemingly" healthy little Pygmy Chamies! Porkchop and Potsticker! (Because they both so pudgy and one looks like white meat haha)

Drinking! If you blink you'll miss it lol

 

[ChamieKeeper]

Well we hit up the Vet office today via motorcycle!

I had no choice again today so had to bring her on the motorcycle! Put her into a petco animal box and into my backpack. She made it down there fine!

Dr. Attila (sp?) said he is not worried about the bumps in her neck. There isn't much he can do about those. He also said that she looks pretty healthy to him now. He asked about her eating and her water and her cage and said I have everything set up right but also said to get some Dubia Roaches? He said I can go see ChamEO for a checkup and the roaches and to measure my bulb UVB output.

I noticed she has been improving since I have a constant dripper on her and the correct lights now too. She is much more light green while she is awake instead of the darker aqua color like she was when I started this thread. What a difference a weekend and some lights will make!

He said dehydration can ruin her kidneys but he didn't want to draw blood because I have been getting her to drink and she eats. He didn't want to do anything to her! He asked me about everything and said to keep doing what I am doing but diversify her diet even more so than I am now by adding roaches too.

$65 to find out my Monkee is doing good and getting better!

Here's a picture. You guys tell me what you think! Can you see the difference already!

Here she is when she figured out how to drink from the dripper tube! She mouths right on it now. Before she was shooting her tongue at it like it was a bug!

And finally here she is resting after her 7 mile motorcycle ride home! Funny how they are always so tired and happy to be home after a rough day.

I appreciate all the help very much folks! She has perked up 100% over the weekend and looks like she will improve even more! Just gonna swing her by Chameo eventually to get her more diversified and maybe check for parasites! Other than that she is good to go! Thanks again folks! Will keep you updated as she improves!

Petco Chamie rescue = a success!