Repti-glo Lights: Dangerous?!

I'm about a year and a half into the whole chameleon-keeping experience, and I have to say, its been really rewarding! But I was worried when I was reading older posts about how dangerous the "coiled bulb" fluorescent lights are for chams. I've never used that type of bulb until today actually, for 5 little rescued baby rudis chameleons I got from a vendor at a reptile show in FLA. It was a spur-of-the-moment decision to take them (they weren't feeding them at the show), and I grabbed the only UV bulb they had. I have UV tubed fluorescent lights on all my other chams. Sorry for the long winded explanation, but are the 2.0 Repti-glo lights really nasty? Please advise...

They can cause blindness in animals. I wouldent risk it tho

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm

Yes they are at least as far as their eye sight is concerned.

Your gonna hear all kinds of remarks about them i personally wouldn't use them on neo's just wait and get a 5.0 tube for now you can use a regular coil bulb it wont get to hot and provides brite light thats a regular household coil not reptiglow

Thanks folks! I have em switched to a 5.0 regular tube fluorescent. Now on to keeping them hydrated and fat

You know, I just ordered a bunch of Exo Terra 5.0 13 watt bulbs for my chameleons. Honestly, I dont know if I buy the results from the above mentioned "research" have anything to do with a 5.0 bulb or going through a screen. It sounds to me like every case would have been a bulb directly shining on the animal and at a close distance... with a 10.0 bulb. I am no expert on light bulbs, but I can tell you that 10.0 is twice the power of a 5.0. Plus for chameleons it is being reduced further in power by the screen.

I will let you all know how it works out, but other than costing a ton more to go with a bunch of CF bulbs insted of several 48" tubes I think I will be happy. I thought I can actually turn off the bulbs over cages not in use saving the watts and life on the bulb... so in the end I think I might come out ahead.

Ben

crazydart said:

You know, I just ordered a bunch of Exo Terra 5.0 13 watt bulbs for my chameleons. Honestly, I dont know if I buy the results from the above mentioned "research" have anything to do with a 5.0 bulb or going through a screen. It sounds to me like every case would have been a bulb directly shining on the animal and at a close distance... with a 10.0 bulb. I am no expert on light bulbs, but I can tell you that 10.0 is twice the power of a 5.0. Plus for chameleons it is being reduced further in power by the screen.

I will let you all know how it works out, but other than costing a ton more to go with a bunch of CF bulbs insted of several 48" tubes I think I will be happy. I thought I can actually turn off the bulbs over cages not in use saving the watts and life on the bulb... so in the end I think I might come out ahead.

Ben

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Good luck experimenting with chameleons. Despite putting research inside of quotes, I think it is pretty conclusive.

Dave Weldon said:

Howdy Laura,

I'd still lead with the http://www.uvguide.co.uk/ site when you speak with the store owner about UVB issues.

Although the UK site has the disclaimer: "Please understand that we are hobbyists. We are not experts", don't discount their ability or their data . Being that UVB UK Site member and researcher Frances M. Baines, M.A., Vet.M.B., M.R.C.V.S. is also "UV advisor to the British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquaria (BIAZA)'s Reptile and Amphibian Working Group" probably doesn't hurt either . In fact, some of the manufacturers themselves, relied on the UK's spectrometer and also various metered data as proof enough for them. The mfgr(s) realized that their own in-house lab was not as well-equipped (properly equipped) as the UK investigators' facility was at the time of discovery and deferred to them. These mfgrs had equipment to find the "good" UVB spectral content/levels but not to detect the "bad" shorter wavelengths which was what was doing most of the damage.

Ben is correct that Hagen Exo Terra Repti Glo CFL product is not directly implicated in the injury of reptiles as was/are the Zoomed 10.0 CFL and other various mfgrs' UVB products.

My concern with CFLs in general, is that they concentrate their energy into a narrower radiated surface compared to linear tubes. It's kind of like comparing spot vs. flood basking lights. This makes it harder to get UVB CFLs positioned to deliver the desired levels over a wide area.

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I think the best way to see if "your" version of the exposure being true (closeness to animal), is by using a solar meter. Do you have one? If not you are really gambling with your herps life.

Hang out in the health section for about 10 minutes, you'll see countless blind chameleon posts because of those budget CFL's. I can understand saving money, but at the expense of your chameleons life?

Those same chameleons experience lighting near and far, through screens and direct exposure with CFL's. Honestly you sound like you are trying to justify your bulk buy, but instead of coming out ahead, you'll be having blind animals.

Time will tell

Well, I have read everything. I am not real sure the 5.0 lights are the problem. Infact the site that everyone uses as their definitive source actually has one case that switching from a 10.0 to a 5.0 solved the problem (http://www.uvguide.co.uk/caseGB.htm). On top of that I did as you said and searched this forum and has a very hard time finding anthing that sounded the least bit conclusive. I found one person that got a very sick and abused vailed from a petshop that had a CF and it dies shortly after he got it... I dont buy it. One person says they got a panther and it didnt eat for a week, then after the changed to a tube it starts eating... it could have just been adjusting or the new owner was making it nervous. We all know Vit A can cause eye problems... perhaps most of these cases are vit A problems. I am not trying to mock nor say these people dont know what they are talking about, but I have seen ZERO cases with any kind of control other than the extreme cases in which people used 10.0 bulbs. I would say they did a bad job of picking the bulb, as the 5.0 is what is clearly needed here (http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_fluorescent_bulbs.php).

I should add I never intended to keep my CF UVB on all day, I was going to shoot for 6 hours a day as the Panther chameleon book I have says you need to provide a place for them to get out of the UVB, which I wont have. I will have a 45 watt spot bulb on 12 hours a day.

Ben

Well, please update us with your findings.. if the CFL actually works for your chameleon. And, perhaps. you can pinpoint later if indeed those cases presented by Dr. Frances Baines are misguided and more of a case of hypovitaminosis A.

crazydart said:

Well, I have read everything. I am not real sure the 5.0 lights are the problem. Infact the site that everyone uses as their definitive source actually has one case that switching from a 10.0 to a 5.0 solved the problem (http://www.uvguide.co.uk/caseGB.htm). On top of that I did as you said and searched this forum and has a very hard time finding anthing that sounded the least bit conclusive. I found one person that got a very sick and abused vailed from a petshop that had a CF and it dies shortly after he got it... I dont buy it. One person says they got a panther and it didnt eat for a week, then after the changed to a tube it starts eating... it could have just been adjusting or the new owner was making it nervous. We all know Vit A can cause eye problems... perhaps most of these cases are vit A problems. I am not trying to mock nor say these people dont know what they are talking about, but I have seen ZERO cases with any kind of control other than the extreme cases in which people used 10.0 bulbs. I would say they did a bad job of picking the bulb, as the 5.0 is what is clearly needed here (http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_fluorescent_bulbs.php).

I should add I never intended to keep my CF UVB on all day, I was going to shoot for 6 hours a day as the Panther chameleon book I have says you need to provide a place for them to get out of the UVB, which I wont have. I will have a 45 watt spot bulb on 12 hours a day.

Ben

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So, what your trying to say is that every one of those cases were coincidences and not at all at the fault of the compact bulb? Why risk it? Why not just get the bulb that is proven to work well and not risk your chameleons health? I just don't see what you have to gain from using the compact bulb. Even if it is just a small risk, why take any risk if its not needed? It seems you are gambling with your chameleons health to attempt and save a few bucks, when instead you could end up spending much more trying to fix a problem you could have very easily prevented.

Everyone right that light will cause blindness. Go to the tube . I learn that experience on here before. Had the same question so its been 2-3 weeks i have been using Repti Sun 5.0 tube.

Time will tell

Jakedn said:

So, what your trying to say is that every one of those cases were coincidences and not at all at the fault of the compact bulb?

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No, but what I am saying is that I have seen none of those cases are showing any scientific method was used in the evaluation. It seems all of these people jumped illogically to the conclusion it was the CF. We all know chameleons are complex animals. The get many mysterious conditions that we know nothing about. Is it fair to just assume its the CF and say "no one should use it, why risk it?" I dont think so. If I had a dime for every time someone told me "thats not going to work, so why try?" and then I was actually successful, I would be a very rich man. I am an IT by trade, and I experience nay sayers all the time... in the end many of these people are just grossly under educated in the subject and thus its just easier to be a nay sayer then learn a little more.

Jakedn said:

Why risk it? Why not just get the bulb that is proven to work well and not risk your chameleons health? I just don't see what you have to gain from using the compact bulb. Even if it is just a small risk, why take any risk if its not needed?

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Well, I dont think there is risk here. Its like someone saying if you drive a Ford you will always be broken down by the side of the road. I talked to someone I work with today and asked them what they think. He has kept many chameleons in his life and right now have a very nice looking ambanja panther which he raised from a little speck. He told me he has two (yep 2) CF UVB bulbs on the cage along with a tube UVB bulb. Perhaps I should just jump to a wreck less conclusion and say he has the one special genetic strain that is not affected to the UVB burnt eyes. If I was a more logical person I would say this is a good case against the CF UVB bulbs causing eye problems.

Jakedn said:

It seems you are gambling with your chameleons health to attempt and save a few bucks, when instead you could end up spending much more trying to fix a problem you could have very easily prevented.

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Hmmm, I can cover 3 cages with a 48" tube, which costs $20 and a $10 light fixture. I can cover 1 cage with a CF bulb that costs $12 and a $8 lamp fixture. Once you multiply that by 3, your total cost to cover 3 cages is actually $60. So I dont think I am saving money here. It will actually cost me double. As for a problem I could have prevented, some very experienced keepers may argue that using a UVB bulb at all is a bad idea. Some say you can very successfully control the D3 with supplements alone. Others say its a bad idea to even keep them indoors. The opinions are all over the board, but one thing is for sure, you talk about preventing a problem, when I dont think its actually been classified as a problem. It needs to be proven first, and I have seen no proof. A real case to prove it would be to take 3 newborn chameleons, put 1 in a cage with a CF over it, 1 with a tube light, and one with no light. Feed them the same diet, in the same room, but divided with some type of light wall. That would be the scientific method. I have read zero cases of anyone doing this. I have however seen people on this forum say things like a CF will give you a sunburn in 15 min, when in fact it wont... someone tested it using the scientific method. Once I have time and space, I will test this for everyone to know the real answer in due time. I am not ruling it out that they cause problems, but I am not going to say they do... that would just be down right irresponsible.

How is jumping to the conclusion that the compact bulb was the problem being illogical where in some cases people have used the compact bulb, it then caused a problem, then they removed the compact bulb, and the chameleon healed? To me, that actually sounds like a very reasonable and logical assumption. I too am not saying that it is fact that compact bulbs are bad, all I am saying is that in my eyes it seems better to use what is proven to be good. Also, I am not a "nay sayer" I actually like taking risks, and I do take risks alot, but only when those risks that I take affect me, and don't risk anybody elses well being.


I understand if you are doing this as a scientific experiment as you described, and I apologize if you stated that before and I merely missed it or misread it and continued with a reply with more hostile of a tone than what should have been used.

agree to disagree

Well Jakedn, looks like we need to agree to disagree here. You might however be happy to know that after careful thought I am going to adjust the distance between the lights and cages.I will have around 6 inches between the top of the cages and the bulbs. If I see no problems in the next 6 months, perhaps when I get new babies I will do 4 inches and keep going closer until the lights are on top of the screen.

Of course if I see problems, I will toss the bulbs and get some tubes.

crazydart said:

Well Jakedn, looks like we need to agree to disagree here. You might however be happy to know that after careful thought I am going to adjust the distance between the lights and cages.I will have around 6 inches between the top of the cages and the bulbs. If I see no problems in the next 6 months, perhaps when I get new babies I will do 4 inches and keep going closer until the lights are on top of the screen.

Of course if I see problems, I will toss the bulbs and get some tubes.

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Glad to know that you are taking precaution. I will be interested with any findings that you have and if you can indeed make it work with no ill effects. Good luck .

crazydart said:

Well Jakedn, looks like we need to agree to disagree here. You might however be happy to know that after careful thought I am going to adjust the distance between the lights and cages.I will have around 6 inches between the top of the cages and the bulbs. If I see no problems in the next 6 months, perhaps when I get new babies I will do 4 inches and keep going closer until the lights are on top of the screen.

Of course if I see problems, I will toss the bulbs and get some tubes.

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Why risk it? The savings do not seem worth it, and often the "problem" is irreversible. Using in on babies is just plain dangerous, as well as impractical since a tube light would cover a greater range and you really need the bulb kind of close. Blindness or MBD-I guess we shall see what "problem" you might have.

Just to add to this. I took in a desert collared lizard from a friend who had
to move and couldn't take her with him. He was using a 10.0 CF Zoo Med bulb,
and when I got her she didn't open her eyes for a few weeks.

I have her under a normal incandescent bulb and take her outside for her UVB
a few times a week.

She has been opening her eyes slowly, after about a month of this she has
started to open her eyes about 80% of the day as opposed to maybe 2% of
the day when I got her.

She now hunts and eats on her own and can see where she has to go to bask.

A desert reptile with a 10.0 bulb isn't unusual, but a forest chameleon with
even half that strength towards sensitive eyes may cause damage.

Normal CF bulbs I have bought from Home Hardware emit about 40-60 UVB,
just go with one of those.

Julirs said:

Why risk it? The savings do not seem worth it, and often the "problem" is irreversible. Using in on babies is just plain dangerous, as well as impractical since a tube light would cover a greater range and you really need the bulb kind of close. Blindness or MBD-I guess we shall see what "problem" you might have.

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Dude, that was your 4,444th post, haha thats awesome.

Jakedn said:

Dude, that was your 4,444th post, haha thats awesome.

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Ummmmmm, Dude?

Julirs said:

Ummmmmm, Dude?

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Oh ahah my bad. I mean uh, uh, dudette? haha