Recurring Panther Chameleon Mouth Infection. Help Please!

Chetbojangles

New Member
Hello,
My Panther Chameleon, Rufus, had a clean bill of health with no problems until Feb 2010 (turned 2 yrs old). His left eye started to close.

Was then seen by local herp vet and the diagnosis was a mouth infection(he found a black lesion in his mouth, cleaned out the puss). He prescibed piperacillin, amikasin injections, and gentamicin gel orally.

Got better then a few weeks later relapsed and had a small growth growing on his head above nostril. Brought to vet again he opened up the growth and cleaned out the puss. Then prescribed same treatment but this time putting gentamicin gel also on growth site.

He was doing well then started noticing he was rubbing his eyes constantly and had yellow-brownish secretions coming from his lips.

He now only eats 2 mealworms every other day. He tries to shoot tongue but misses and tries stabbing at it with a short flick of the tongue but now he doesnt even try, I have to place the worms directly in his mouth.

In the morning he is VERY slow to wake up and has that yellowbrown drool leaking out of his mouth. I have been giving him the leftover gentamicin gel orally until he can be seen by vet (this friday).

In the meantime since I have had NO luck at all getting rid of this pesky infection and have spent well over 1500 dollars, I was hoping to reach out to this knowledgable communitity and see if I can bring any additional helpful info to my vet. With your help I hope to finally resolve this as my poor chameleon has been suffering with this miserable problem for the majority of 2010!

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Blue Barred Male Ambilobe Panther Chameleon 2.5 years old that I have owned since he was 8 weeks old. Purchased from Screameleons.

Handling - I usually take him out once every other day for about 10 minutes.

Feeding - Used to feed primarily crickets until Feb 2010 when problem first occured. Have since switched to giant mealworms. Normally he would eat 8 worms every other day when NOT sick.

Supplements - Reptical Calcium with D3 3 or 4 times a month by rolling worms in the powder. Reptical Reptile Vitamin 1 time a month using same technique.

Watering - I use a McDonalds Supersize Plastic Cup with a pinhole at bottom to allow for a steady drip onto plastic leafy vines. I water him approx. 5 times a day. I mist the enclosure for 30 secs. 2x a day. When healthy I would see him drinking. Now I give him water orally with a syringe just in case since i dont see him drinking.

Fecal Description -Usually had 3 bowel movements a week when healthy. Now is down to once a week. Usually brown white and orange.



Cage Info:
Cage Type - Reptarium Screen Cage 4ft x 2.5 ft.

Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 UVB 15 Watt 18" tube AND a Powersun 100w UVA UVB and Heat bulb ALL-IN-One. My lighting schedule is 9:30am to 9:30pm

Temperature - cage floor = 75f basking spot = 85f Lowest overnight temp = 72F. I measure with a thermometer that I keep at the basking point.

Humidity - Varies from 50% to 60% I do not use a humidifier. I measure with a hygrometer.

Plants - Homegrown grape vines that have been baked at 150F to disinfect. 2 Fake plastic leafy vines(for water to drip off)

Placement - Cage located in my bedroom (low traffic area most traffic is in my living room) It is near 2 windows and the air conditioner (never set below 72F). The top of the cage is approximately 5 ft. off ground level.

Location - I am located 45 minutes upstate from NYC

Picture Number 1 is of his thick saliva. See the corners of his mouth?
Picture Number 2 is of his enclosure. See anything I should change?
 

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I am sorry to hear tha Rufus is still not well. I would recommend you change a few things in your husbandry and take him to a different cham vet I believe your guy make have more problems that just a mouth infection. I'm going to attach a list below and maybe one of these will be within driving distance for you.

First mealworm are hard to digest and not a good staple feeder for your cham. Try sikworms they are excellent feeders or hornworms or superworms.

You should be dusting his feeders several times a week with plain calcium without d3. Only use calcium with d3 twice a month and a multi vit. once or twice a month.

When did you last change your UVB bulb? Is it the coil bulb or the long tube style? I don't knnow allot about the power sun bulb but that sounds like to much lights to me......too much UVB.

I would highly recommend getting that large container of water out of the cage before your cham drowns.

Vets: https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/
 
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Yea I agree with jann
the light seems over doing it.

Also what is that big tupper-ware of water in the cage?
Or is it a big tupper-ware of water?
If it is it should be removed.
He could drowned in it and poop in it and bacteria can build up in it,
maybe thats the source of your mouth infections :confused:

Also the cage could use a little more foilage and a little more natural trees and plants.

Mouth infections are super hard to fight and they do have the tendency to come back,
you just got to keep fighting it until you squash it for good :/
It could also be a number of things thats causing it, if its not comiing back on its own, thats why you gotta get a really really good CHAMELEON vet.
Sure there are reptile vets but they dont know how to deal with chameleons and theyll just ACT like they know whats going on.
Ive experienced a vet like that before.
Thats why its important to ask about their personal experience with chameleons.
 
Thank you for the quick reply! I originally had just the tube style Reptisun UV light and a 60 watt regular clear light bulb for heat/light. Once he started relapsing (April 2010) I tried to up the lighting just to make sure this wasn't part of the problem. Thats when I swapped out the reg light bulb for the powersun
(info here: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752615)
I also purchased a new tube style reptisun in April as well.

Maybe too much UV and not enough heat?

The only place that sells feeder insects by me is Petsmart. Out of the feeders you mentioned, they only have the superworms. I thought those were similar to mealworms?

Thank you for the advice on the supplementation and the vets. I will get on top of that asap.
 
PedroandAshley,
The tupperware is to collect the dripping water. I made sure to place the vines into the container to ensure that if he were to fall in he would be able to climb out BUT i never thought of when he poops and it gets in the water. I empty the water every other day but only disinfect it once and awhile. I never thought that he could possibly be lapping it out of the container with poop in it while I am at work though. That could be a real possibility. Maybe I should put a screen cover over it so that water can still be collected in there without him getting in there and drinking tainted water?

I can put some natural plants in there. Anything you personally recommend?

Out of all the vets in my area this was the best one I could find that actually had treated chameleons. You would think for living in one of the biggest metro areas in the world we would have some super vets here. I had been to 3 other guys and they seemed to know less about the lizards than I did!

I'm going to continue to fight it, I feel real bad for the little dude...

Thanks for all your help so far
 
I would deff. put some mesh screening over it so that the water can fall there but not be drank by him.
Normally chams dont recognize standing water as a drink source but with the droplets hitting the water it ripples so there is a possiblity he can be drinking from there.

There are alot of plants that can be used by chams.
A popular one is a ficus benjima
and also a hanging plant called pothos.
If you go to our enclosure section the top post is our live plant data base.

Also be sure to wash your new plant thoroughly because pesticides can hurt eyes and kill chams/make them sick. And place rocks over the top of the soil because chams do tend to eat soil and replace the chemical treated soil with organic.

I would remove the uvb and uva bulb because over doing uvb is harmful. You can just buy a normal 50-60watt house bulb and call it good :)
Your reptisun 5.0 18" is just fine for uvb.
 
I'm making a list of stuff to buy at the store so I'm definitely putting mesh over the water container. I checked out the live plant database and i think I'm going to go with hibiscus pothos and jasmine. I plan on diluted some antibacterial liquid soap with water and throughly washing the plants/pots and replacing the chemical soil with the organic. Rocks are a good idea and Ill prob put mesh on top too just in case. I removed the other light and replaced it with a 60w reg bulb.
 
Sounds good.
Just FYI hibiscus are pretty difficult to keep indoors.
They tend to die. :p
Anywho good luck with your little guy :p
 
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