DONT DO IT -- My Thoughts On Buying Wild Caught Chameleons

Seeco

Seeco

Avid Member
I of course got my project started by purchasing Wild Caught animals but the harvesting of a free living wild animal is a bad and painful thing. Many die in the process.

What I am arguing for is that WC chameleons be purchased strictly for developing captive breeding programs on a professional level. It is not sufficient to buy 1 male and 2 females unless several of your friends all get the same and you trade mates for genetic diversity.

If you want a pet you should (for a million reasons) only buy Captive Bred animals.

Anyway if you are tempted I suggest:

1) Don't buy unless you can and will breed. Ask where will you be in a year when your eggs start to hatch?

2) Form an alliance with people that like the same species. Plan ahead ie "Ok you have an extra female so I'll order one less" For example join the Kinyongia Chameleon Keepers.

3) Don't buy a variety pack -- getting one of each species is useless and they were kidnapped strictly for your entertainment. Don't get just a nice male -- go to a breeder for that.

4) Have vet money set aside.

5) Win the lotto and quit your day job.
 
I pretty much agree with you. Too many people get WC and they kill them by not understanding/meeting their needs.

I am trying to acquire melleri for a breeding project and they are mostly WC - though I do have a couple CB. I have taken in several WC melleri from people who just didn't know what they were doing and it has been a struggle to rehabilitate them and too often futile.

I have your suggestions 1-4 covered - can you help with #5? That has been my goal for a long time but it is surprisingly challenging!!
 
Yep, I absolutely agree with you.


There are several wide-sweeping changes that need to be made in the law:

-pet stores should only be allowed to sell supplies (no animals, maybe feeders)

-animals should be obtained from private breeders directly

-NO WC animals on the market except to breeders

I could go on and on...
 
I agree and I also and I may get attacked for saying this as some members here have WC chameleons but personally I think whether you're breeding are not, I think its cruel, these WC animals have never seen or been in contact with humans and then someone comes along, plucks them out of the wild, ships them and causes all that stress to the poor animal :(

A pet store near me called Snakes 'N' Adders stock WC animals as well as captice bred and I feel bad for the WC ones, knowing once they were in the wild and now is a small tank. Captive breds ones are the way to go, at least we know they interact with humans and have since birth and survive a lot better than WC ones.
 
Seeco said:
I of course got my project started by purchasing Wild Caught animals but the harvesting of a free living wild animal is a bad and painful thing. Many die in the process.

What I am arguing for is that WC chameleons be purchased strictly for developing captive breeding programs on a professional level. It is not sufficient to buy 1 male and 2 females unless several of your friends all get the same and you trade mates for genetic diversity.

If you want a pet you should (for a million reasons) only buy Captive Bred animals.

Anyway if you are tempted I suggest:

1) Don't buy unless you can and will breed. Ask where will you be in a year when your eggs start to hatch?

2) Form an alliance with people that like the same species. Plan ahead ie "Ok you have an extra female so I'll order one less" For example join the Kinyongia Chameleon Keepers.

3) Don't buy a variety pack -- getting one of each species is useless and they were kidnapped strictly for your entertainment. Don't get just a nice male -- go to a breeder for that.

4) Have vet money set aside.

5) Win the lotto and quit your day job.
Click to expand...

Your pretty much preaching the gospel Seeco. Carry on.
 
You are talking my feelings completely. But being a total hypocrite I purchased a w/c male quad. I did not do it lightly. He now lives in a large room will in excess of 5 trees that of to the ceiling and bunches of smaller ones. He has UVB, 48" fixture, heat light, his own mistking going 4 times a day, and a dripper at all times. He is as close as I will ever be to a cham who living free. I do feel guilty, but I did it, is all I can say. And yes he will be a breeder.
 
I too would agree with what has been said. I too recently bought a WC cham for breeding purposes and I will tell you once he realized there were females here and he could go outside all the time he seemed to really come out of his shell. I still at times feel bad for the guy and if I wasn't going to be using him to add genetics to the breeding pool I would have never gotten him. I would not buy a WC cham just to have as a pet for all the reasons mentioned above and more.
 
i bought a pair of WC pygmy spectrum in hopes to breed((female already gravid) from a show. sadly my female died. now im stuck with a male. i've been serching for some females but no luck. i feel bad for the little guy but he's adapted to life with me good and eats/drinks gr8 and loves his little log. i try to think of it like this- if someone with a female offers to take and breed him, ill sell him, i'll buy a female if possible tho. he hasnt had anything try to eat him for a while so im shure that makes him feel better aswell and i also dont touch or look at him to much so he has a peaceful life.
 
Agreed.... All of my chameleons are captive Bred. I dont have anything WC except my brown anoles who are a breeding pair. I have to say that if they were bought for breeding reasons thats a little different. If it werent for breeders having WC chameleons we wouldnt have CB ones. so they have a purpose.
 
What is atrocious and should be banned completely is the fact that you see vendors at reptile shows with cages full of WC animals (chameleons, geckos, etc.) and they all look sickly and stressed. Most of those will die by the end of the weekend, regardless of whether they go into capable homes or not, they are just too far gone. And this is terrible. Because those vendors are getting them shipped from the wild that same week and set them up on a table that weekend. It's plain unethical.

No one should be selling WCs either unless they've been properly acclimated. But even then, as a conservation ecologist/biologist in training, I have a hard time being at peace with catching animals from the wild in the first place.
 
I think quotas should be done for the most part with WC quotas or Farm raised quotas. With an emphasis on conservative quotas for all wild caught species (minimal amounts). As this keeps most breeding adult animals in the wild. However enough to allow for sustained breeding in captivity. For animals for the hobby we the keepers really should be relying on captive breds to supplying hobbiest/research keepers. For at least two species this has been a successs Furcifer pardalis and Chamaeleo calypatratus. For other less comon species the idea would be for eperienced keepers to coordinate and start up breeding programs as seen with Kinyongia Chameleon Keepers. Possibly done with a Trioceros or Furcifer group and for other popular and well recieved species.
 
Olimpia said:
What is atrocious and should be banned completely is the fact that you see vendors at reptile shows with cages full of WC animals (chameleons, geckos, etc.) and they all look sickly and stressed. Most of those will die by the end of the weekend, regardless of whether they go into capable homes or not, they are just too far gone. And this is terrible. Because those vendors are getting them shipped from the wild that same week and set them up on a table that weekend. It's plain unethical.

No one should be selling WCs either unless they've been properly acclimated. But even then, as a conservation ecologist/biologist in training, I have a hard time being at peace with catching animals from the wild in the first place.
Click to expand...

I agree - and worse, they sell to anyone, regardless of experience or knowledge and don't even give a basic care sheet ... and they will say anything to make a sale.
 
I agree and was duped once by a person selling a CB chameleon - that was definitely NOT CB, was a WC and died within a few days. It was heartbreaking. He used a false photo and lied about every detail. Now I know to only buy from people I know - this person was actually recommended. Chameleons require so much time and effort as it is - the WC critters need even more - it's definitely not something I want to go through again. I wasn't equipped and I don't think the little thing stood a chance anyway. :-(
 
Olimpia said:
What is atrocious and should be banned completely is the fact that you see vendors at reptile shows with cages full of WC animals (chameleons, geckos, etc.) and they all look sickly and stressed. Most of those will die by the end of the weekend, regardless of whether they go into capable homes or not, they are just too far gone. And this is terrible. Because those vendors are getting them shipped from the wild that same week and set them up on a table that weekend. It's plain unethical.

No one should be selling WCs either unless they've been properly acclimated. But even then, as a conservation ecologist/biologist in training, I have a hard time being at peace with catching animals from the wild in the first place.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. That's why when I vend in the future, I will make it clear and show it that my chams are well started Captive Breds. Of course all of us who are well versed know to look for the vendors who actually bring the screen enclosures with the UVB and heat lamps. Not a 10 gallon fish tank with some sticks thrown into it. It's a shame....
 
kudos to you for starting a thread thats in the back of all our minds.

this should be made into a sticky or added to the beginners section or something
 
thephotoprincess said:
I agree - and worse, they sell to anyone, regardless of experience or knowledge and don't even give a basic care sheet ... and they will say anything to make a sale.
Click to expand...

This is actually an issue that bothers me greatly. At least in CA, if a pet store sells an animal they are required to give you a caresheet (now, admittedly, they don't actually do this and/or they give you the wrong caresheet, etc...)

but at a trade show or otherwise, since its not a "retail establishment" they don't have to do any such things -.-
 
I also want to point out that catching harder to find chams will result in more environmental damage by harvesters trampling plants and climbing trees.
 
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