Cham is having a new skin issue

I tried really hard to take a clear pic of this but apparently my POS camera can only take pictures of blurry things. So Ill try and explain this. Ive been giving my cham antibiotics for his eye for about a couple weeks. Tonight I came home and looked at him, his skin was cratered in a couple spots. They looked like lesions but the skin wasn't broken but its indented in a couple spots like circles. Closest description I can think of is like someone put a cigarette out on him, but without the burn. The skin is also darker/discolored in these areas. Theres nothing in the cage really that could have caused this. This sound familiar to anyone?

If my memory allows... I think I remember reading somewhere that chams can get a type of ringworm that shows small circles under the skin...

If we r talking about eye issues and now skin issues take some poop to the vet with you and have them test it as well as blood work if you can. If the vet says that your cham is fine and you dont trust him then call another vet.

Are these marks anywhere that the medication could have touched?

There is a fungus that causes marks that are similar to what you are describing. It develops small pox-like lesions around the marks and usually elsewhere on the body. If its this fungus your chameleon will need an oral antifungal medication.

A vet could test to see if its a fungus. We can't tell from a description...or even a photo for that matter.

Funny that you mentioned worms(well not really funny), but thats what his skin looks like. Like there would be worms under it.

And I do need another Vet...

Ahhhh


I found it on the web. This is what it is. It is frikin worms lol. anyone have any experience with subcutaneous nematodes? Not even sure how he got them, bad bugs?


http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2002/may2002/necropsy/14_Subcutaneous-worms.jpg

LOL told yah

take him in. The only way to get rid of those guys is meds. Make an imediate emergency appt. Those guys will cause all kinds of issues on your friend!!

I also know that worms like this in humans can effect the eyes. They burrow in the soft warmth the eyeballs have and eventually cause blindness as they burrow through teh retna. This is in humans dunno about chams... Thank you animal planet!

Do you know if they are contagious? If so I need to move his cage away from the other one.

quarantine the cham. Also be careful in handling your sick cham too.
Make an appointment to the vet to have your cham deworm.
Some advance case will require surgery.

Time for you to REALLY REALLY clean the cage to prevent reinfestation.
If it is wild capture chameleon then we pretty much know how he got it..
but if he is a captive breed... then you get some serious problem in your enclosure management.

Subcutaneous Nematodes don't come alone...
If you see one, chances are they are everywhere..

Well that sucks. He's CB and his cage isn't that bad, or so I think. But yes im going to be doing that first thing in the morning. I just hope it hasn't spread next door to my other cham whos cage i just setup the other day. I do put them outside on the weekends, possibly caught it out there?

yah it is most definately contagious. They spread like normal worms would, through eggs. Keep a strong eye out on all of your chams and If you touch teh infected one, wash THOROUGHLY before touching anything even yourself. I personally woudl take the things like vines and bowls and such and boil them to clean them. Everything else needs to be stripped down and scrubbed liek WOAH! I woudl prolly even set up a cage set-up that is for sure clean and set it aside for after your cham gets home from teh vet. When he does put him in that one and clean his old one in and out while throwing away/boiling anything you can.

goodluck, be sure to get that docs appt.

Ya I just recaged him and dismantled his cage and threw it out back. Only odd thing I saw was my Pothos plant which normally sits high near the nozzle and WOW was there some crazy little white egg action going on in that thing.....

thanks though.

If they are this type of worm under the surface of the skin they are not "contagious"...they spread by being transferred/transmitted from one animal to another by physical means. A mosquito or fly that is carrying these microfilariae or foleyella bites the chameleon and the worms end up in the blood of the chameleon and migrate to other parts of the chameleon's body.

If the load is heavy, treatment can result in death due to systemic reaction involving the release of endotoxins from the microfilariae dying in the bloodstream.

I don't know if they pass into the intestines and could be transmitted through the feces or not...but I would make sure that I used good hygiene and didn't move from cleaning one cage to cleaning the next or handling one critter and then handling the next without washing well in between.

Maybe someone else will know if they can be passed by oral/fecal means??

IM pretty sure the eggs are able to go both ways. mainly though through the feces but oral as well if you were to make out with your cham or something of the sort.

this would be a good time for our local forum vet to come around and post up his views

kinyonga said:

If they are this type of worm under the surface of the skin they are not "contagious"...they spread by being transferred/transmitted from one animal to another by physical means. A mosquito or fly that is carrying these microfilariae or foleyella bites the chameleon and the worms end up in the blood of the chameleon and migrate to other parts of the chameleon's body.

If the load is heavy, treatment can result in death due to systemic reaction involving the release of endotoxins from the microfilariae dying in the bloodstream.

I don't know if they pass into the intestines and could be transmitted through the feces or not...but I would make sure that I used good hygiene and didn't move from cleaning one cage to cleaning the next or handling one critter and then handling the next without washing well in between.

Maybe someone else will know if they can be passed by oral/fecal means??

Click to expand...

When you go to the vet, most likely he/she will take a blood sample to determine what species of parasites are actually in your cham. Madagascar chameleons have been known as one of the species that often attacked by this kind of parasites.
Like Kinyonga said, the culprit that spread this to your chameleon is most likely (not limited to) a mosquito that carries the microfilariae.

When not treated, your chameleon will exhibit symptoms of lethargy, anorexia, and weight loss.
I have heard that some species of parasites cannot be treated by oral medicine. The fear is the medicine will not only kill the worms but also your cham or like the one that kinyonga said.
So, the way they treat this is by making an incision on the skin and literally yank the worms out and suturing the incision.
This treatment will be repeated over and over until all the parasites are gone.

The worms will produce eggs. And your chameleon's feces will have lots of the worm's eggs in it, until some insects or other organism accidentally eat it.. or if your cham is bitten by a mosquito and the cycle continues.

the feces itself might not directly transfer the parasites to other chameleons.
But, my guess is the parasites can be transferred to you.
If you touch the eggs and then touch your mouth or etc..
Or if you forgot to clean your hands.. You know the rest of the story, right.

So, my Most important advice of all... exercise cleanliness when you handle this particular cham, his cage, the things inside the cage.
and don't forget to clean your hands as well.

Ok, well hes already at the Vet this morning. Hopefully he wont need surgery. We don't really have mosquitoes here that Ive seen. The little flys in the plants are probably my only bug problem. The Pothos plant in there was grossly infested with the little white eggs i'm guessing were theirs too. Im just going to bleach the hell out of his cage, wash and repot the plants. Will have to start inspecting the plants more often. Other than that I guess thats all i can do.

This is the cycle I thought all of these blood worms follow...
a parasitised fly or mosquito or similar insect (female) takes a blood meal at which time the saliva containing larvae passes into the blood of the host.
From here the larvae migrate to the subcutaneous tissue and mature into adult worms. After maturation, they mate and produce. The eggs mature internally and remain in the subcutaneous tissue. They are taken up by black flies upon a blood meal, completing the cycle.

If this is true then there are no eggs expelled in the feces.
I would be interested in reading any articles that explain it if this is not the cycle.

lonomac said:

Ok, well hes already at the Vet this morning. Hopefully he wont need surgery. We don't really have mosquitoes here that Ive seen. The little flys in the plants are probably my only bug problem. The Pothos plant in there was grossly infested with the little white eggs i'm guessing were theirs too. Im just going to bleach the hell out of his cage, wash and repot the plants. Will have to start inspecting the plants more often. Other than that I guess thats all i can do.

Click to expand...

the little fly that you're explaining sounds like fungus gnat.

check this one out.. if you have a weak stomach... then don't..
this is the process of getting rid the parasites:
it says beardies in the address.. but it's actually a surgery process for panther chameleons

http://www.australianbeardies.com/parasites.htm

Yep fungus gnats is what I meant. All the reading I did on this made it sound liek if it wasnt wild caught, its from a mosquito. But neither of those are true I think. I don't think ive ever seen a misquote here. But anyway got some Panacur from the Vet. Hopefully it kills them all quickly

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

Hmmmmmmmmm.....So what did the vet say the problem was? I think Panacur only treats intestinal nematodes. I don't think it gets the skin type. I could be wrong but it seems strange to me. What was the actual diagnosis? The filarial skin worms like the ones that are common in wild caught panthers are only killed with Ivermectin which is a nasty/toxic substance. You remove the ones under the skin (I've done that myself a lot), but the only way to kill the ones in the rest of the body is the Ivermectin stuff. It can kill the Panther too more times than not. But those worms, spread by mosquitos, are not really found on captive bred Panthers here in the USA. To the best of my knowledge, other nematodes that migrate to the skin need to be removed manually from the skin. Some nematodes that are found in the gut and can be killed in the gut with Panacur can ocassionally migrate out to the skin. Then it has to be removed by hand, not by Panacur. I'm not familiar with the "ring worm" issue that someone else posted about.....A big Hmmmmmm from me on this. Very interested in the exact diagnosis on this skin issue!