Well i decided I'd bring this up to see what people would say about my female veiled. I have had Leaf since she was about 5 weeks old. I bought her from a breeder that lives about an hour away from me. My roomate has a male veiled thats around 10 months old now so i know hes ready to breed but heres my question. My female is about 5 months old and HUGE for her age. When i bought her she was soooo tiny and delicate and i fed her well when she was little which is why I think she is so big now. Ive read that feeding a female
alot when theyre little can trigger them to reach maturity way sooner than they should but based on her weight, i dont think her early blossoming is to big of a problem. Shes 5 months or so right now but when she was last at the vet on valentines day she weighed in at 112g which after some searching and browsing the forum is about what alot of adult females weigh. Today while putting her in her new cage i had her out and out of curiosity, i took showed her to my roomates male. He immediately flared up and started showing off his colors. Leaf, whom was on my arm, crouched down, pinched me really tight and showed bright green with blue bars running her side, and lots of blue on her casque. Ive never seen her display like this before she looked amazing. She didnt hiss nor turn dark. She pulled her tail upward and just stayed there, waiting for bud and he practically ran out of the cage i had to pull leaf away cause they surely would have bred on my arm. Shes so receptive its incredible and every bit of her behavior was textbook of what a female should look like when shes ready to breed. I wasnt planning on breeding her for another month or so but what do you guys suggest? How soon have some of you bred a female veiled. I know most of you wont recommend breeding until shes about 8 months or more but i wanted to ask the question anyway. I have a pod of hornworms that are pretty much full grown and she ate one today. I talked to the guy i bought her from and i believe hes a wholesaler but occasionally he'll post on kingsnake he said that hes bred large females like mine at this age with great success. I want to be patient but its hard cause she seems so damn ready! Just wanted to hear what you guys had to say.

Heres a pic of the horn worm i snapped today. I know this may sound wierd but hornworms are amazing looking lol. They get big sooooo fast.




Heres Leaf. I took these pics on the 23rd of feb




NOTE* I did not breed her today so do not get the wrong impression.

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she's beautiful but i don't really see the robin egg blue spots on her

Thanks. That picture she wasnt displaying the spots but normally she'll show the blue spots when shes just chillin out but she was alittle pissed that i even had her out. When i showed her to bud today, she showed blue BARS practically ive never seen anything like it.

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wow!
She is a monster for 5 months.
112 grams is very impressive too.
A lot of people would say NO!, but........
Why be so cut and dry about everything?
You could always step outside of the box, because not very many people really do.
I know Steve Reecy(sp) bred a panther female that way only 4 months old by accident.
She has layed several clucthes since then.
Do what you want, but remeber just seeing the male may have triggered her to start cycling eggs.

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Sunshine Chameleons
SunshineChameleons.com

Ive showed her to him a few times in the past couple of months and she would normally sit there and gape her mouth but she would still stay green. Her display of blue today and her lifting the tail and crouching down as if saying "come get me" haha left me wondering. Will, the breeder i bought her from sounds pretty confident that shes ready to go but i know patience is a huge in the hobby, which is why im skeptical. I hope Kinyoga or steve might chime in.

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She is big!
Even so .... I would wait. She will be receptive many times in her life.
Breeding too early is (in my opinion) not fair to her at this age.
It is very hard on them, and despite her size ... she is still only 5 months old.

-Brad

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http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
Dedicated to promoting superior care for Veiled Chameleons

I agree with you brad and have always felt the same way as you, but theres a few reasons why im debating breeding her now. Although i have had the same views as you, i got to thinking about a few things.

1. If a female veiled were to be of this size in the wild at this age, which im sure some are if not bigger, i would be willing to bet every female no matter how young, if theyre mature and receptive to a male, they would mate.

2. Females in the wild seem to mate whenever they can because thats what instinct tells them because after all, part of their job is to reproduce to ensure the species survives. They dont know if they'll get eaten by a predator or not so instinct tells them to seize the moment when they can. I think this is also a reason why you see many WC females (of all sorts of species) of a mature age seem to be gravid quite often. This is possibly why chams have evolved to have clutches with retained sperm, because they might not get another chance with a male in their lifetime. Im sure some might agree with me on this.

3. A female being receptive tells us that the chameleon itself is ready. Our chameleon knows their body and their feelings way better than we could ever understand. I think if a female doesn't feel she is ready, she would make it obvious to the male and to us. And luckily chameleons make their emotions obvious enough that all of us that are a part of the hobby have learned what colors mean what.

Those are just a few things ive been thinking about lately. Yes i know many people recommend an older age and age is probably a much better gauge to telling us weather a female is ready to breed or not but a chameleon of my females size and age, thats showing every color and sign that a female of 2yrs old shows... Well you know what i mean. This is a great starter of a deep and most likely controversial thread. I hope no one holds this against me that i feel this way. I dont think is so much that "its not fair" because in the wild im sure they would push the limits much more that i would if i bred my 5month old female. I havnt bred her yet so dont jump on my ass yet if anyone plans to do so. The more all of us in the hobby discuss these things, the more precise chameleon keeping will be to simulate what would go down in nature because mother nature knows way more about chameleon keeping than we'll ever know.

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I am sure that in the wild she would breed. But 12 year old humans can breed, and I am not an advocate of that. It is taxing on a body.

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WWW.JULIRSCHAMELEONS.COM3.3 Veileds 1.2 Nosy Be 1.1 Oustalet 1.0 Fischers 0.0.1 Mellers 0.1 Ambilobe 3.2 Pygmeleons 0.1 Bitan

Good point, Juli. And you've got good points, too, Nico. It is ultimately up to you, BUT just because you can (or she can) doesn't mean you should.

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AFH
I bet you've never had your hand around an oosik.

I know what you guys are talking about. And Julirs, i know what you mean ive thought about that before too but its still kinda different. But can you guys see why im even questioning it? If it wasn't for her size i wouldn't even be asking the question really but since at 5 months she weighs about the same as average full grown females do. Im sure genetics have alot to do with how early some females can breed. Some can handle it, and some cant. I'd really be curious as to how old some wild females will breed in the wild. that'd be darn near impossible to find out but it'd be interesting to see the ages. Like i said, im sure they'll breed the first chance they get. Brad, how much does your female weigh now? Shes gravid isn't she?

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