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  #1  
Old 12-10-2011, 04:24 PM
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Exclamation Bearded Dragon Limb Paralaysis PLEASE HELP

BEARDED DRAGON Info:

Your Bearded Dragon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

My bearded dragon is a female juvenile, she is about 10 inches long and about 60 grams which i know is light sadly.


Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

I handle about every other day

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

Roaches, supers, just started really pushing greens like collar greed, and the dark leafy greens that you can get packaged from safeway

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

d3 about every week once, plain calcuim almost always, then vitamins about once a month

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

everything, sometimes baths, mist daily, now sense she is having mobility problems i have been mouth feeding her water through a syringe and have been supplementing reptaid.

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Today during a bath she took a large poop, which i am praying helps her get back her limb movement, the poop had a decent calcium deposit of white poop and then some other regular poop alone with urine

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

She was housed with another female that is totally healthy but as of today will be being housed alone due to her leg problem. She really was a healthy bearded dragon, just yesterday she was sprinting back and forth around her cage active as ever.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Visionarium about 4x2x2

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

8 point uvb bulb and a basking lamp which gets the basking spot at about 90

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

cool side is about 80 warm side is 90-92 during the day and drops to about 65-70 at night

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

humidity is low except sometimes when i mist them the cage gets humid cause there is low ventilation

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

none

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

garage, elevated a little, a low traffic area except when im out there taking care of everyone


Location - Where are you geographically located?

bay area california

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

She is seemingly unable to place her legs on the ground and walk, like they cant get to the ground, the back limbs are worse than the front but all in all they seem pretty bad. She did as i said earlier take a large poop earlier and i know that can cause limb paralysis but I don't feel that is the problem. If anyone has any advice please help out. She is a high white line from bloodbank dragons if maybe anyone else has had neurological problems please let me know.

please help ill post some pictures when possible
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2011, 05:27 PM
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I can only think of a few things that might help. Her basking temp should be more 100 to 105. Half of her diet needs to be greens, fresh green beans, collard, greens, kale, carrots, all are things my beardie's liked. She may be egg bound. Pick her up and feel her stomach, if she is carrying eggs get her into a 5 gal bucket 1/2 full with WARM sand. Leave a light clipped on the side of the bucket to keep her warm. Don't forget to turn the light off at night. If she isn't able to use her feet to dig a hole, you may need to head for the vet. Let me know how she does, Good luck
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2011, 07:25 PM
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She is still a juvenile so there is no way she has eggs. but thank you though, it really is weird what is happening to her. I am hoping the bad legs is a result of her being constipated that was cured by the bath. thanks though i appreciate the trying but if anyone else is really into dragons please help
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Old 12-10-2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
like they cant get to the ground
Can't figure out what you mean by that. Are they being held unnaturally up off the substrate while her belly is in contact with the ground? Almost seems impossible the way I am imagining it from your description. Any chance of a photo?

Quote:
some other regular poop alone with urine
Don't know what this means either- do you mean urates (white stuff) or urine like clear liquid like a dog or cat is coming out?

How long have you had this lizard and how much has it grown while in your care?

It almost sounds like she ate something toxic maybe- but I am stabbing in the dark.

I don't think I would recommend picking her up and feeding her if she was looking fine only yesterday. If she has injured her back somehow, which I guess is another possibility you don't want to tweak her spine with a lot of handling.

I doubt paralysis is from too large a poopy or too large an item in her gut- because she is 10". Little dragons can get a rear leg paralysis if they eat too large a meal until it digests and relieves the pressure on the spine, but this won't effect the front limbs. Once they are several inches long, this doesn't happen.

I'm not familiar with your uvb brand. But there is also a possibility that your lizard has MBD or some other vitamin imbalance. You aren't giving much in the way of d3 or vitamins compared to what I use. The other Q is why is your dragon on the light side? (I don't know that she is- I would have to grab one of my 10" dragons and weigh it for comparison, so I'm just taking your word for it). If she has been underfed and undersupplemented in addition, then I would guess there is a chance that this is nutritionally related.

I'm afraid I can't offer a lot of advice sight unseen and from your description of the problem. But I will tell you where my husbandry greatly differs from yours. The first is water- you say you mist. That is OK *if* it is so light that your substrate dries out within a few minutes. If you have a damp substrate for hours every day this invites bacteria which I suppose could also be the root of the problem here- bacterial infection spreading around internally could effect the nervous system or create a toxic situation within the lizard the lizard I suppose. So my first point is- I keep my substrate dry. Second area- I use much warmer temperatures. I know some have used cooler temps closer to yours, my dragons clearly prefer warmer (100-110) under the basking light and show better colors and behaviors. Warmer temps effect digestion, ability to absorb and use nutrients, create d3 from uvb, and immune system function. I use d3 daily. Never had an overdose problem and have been breeding lots of dragons since 1994. I use rep-cal with d3 but only on feeder insects- not salad, and by the time they are adults, I use very few feeder insects, mainly undusted salad and pellets- so that may be relevant when talking about d3. 1x per week I use a good multivitamin for babies. (Reptivite or herptivite are fine). When I used mainly commercially grown crickets- lack of multivitamin would cause problems in some baby dragons over time. Mostly I grow my own insects now, and because of my gutloading I can get away with less or no multivitamin, but still use it because it is a safety net.

I guess going along with the toxic theme- possible for your greens to have a little pesticide on it and she ate it?

I don't know- sorry I can't be more help. Maybe a photo would clue me in.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:18 PM
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does her legs ever come down?

What temp is the floor of the cage?

did feed her prey a little to big for her?

id like to see pictures of this dragon....

if the limbs are not rock stiff. i would start doing range of motion on them. do this twice a day everyday until she regains use of the limbs. just move the legs in natural motions for about 5-10 minutes. this will keep muscle tone and keep them lose.

id also soak her daily in warm water for about 5 minutes.

lastly i would give her a little bit of mineral oil.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxlizard View Post
Can't figure out what you mean by that. Are they being held unnaturally up off the substrate while her belly is in contact with the ground? Almost seems impossible the way I am imagining it from your description. Any chance of a photo?



Don't know what this means either- do you mean urates (white stuff) or urine like clear liquid like a dog or cat is coming out?

it was a solid brown one, with decent moisture, and a little yellow goop that look like urine and the solid calcium white poop

How long have you had this lizard and how much has it grown while in your care?

its been in my care for about 3 months and has grown about 3 inches longer i think but im not sure about the exact measurements.

It almost sounds like she ate something toxic maybe- but I am stabbing in the dark.

I don't think I would recommend picking her up and feeding her if she was looking fine only yesterday. If she has injured her back somehow, which I guess is another possibility you don't want to tweak her spine with a lot of handling.

I doubt paralysis is from too large a poopy or too large an item in her gut- because she is 10". Little dragons can get a rear leg paralysis if they eat too large a meal until it digests and relieves the pressure on the spine, but this won't effect the front limbs. Once they are several inches long, this doesn't happen.

I'm not familiar with your uvb brand. But there is also a possibility that your lizard has MBD or some other vitamin imbalance. You aren't giving much in the way of d3 or vitamins compared to what I use. The other Q is why is your dragon on the light side? (I don't know that she is- I would have to grab one of my 10" dragons and weigh it for comparison, so I'm just taking your word for it). If she has been underfed and undersupplemented in addition, then I would guess there is a chance that this is nutritionally related.

I'm afraid I can't offer a lot of advice sight unseen and from your description of the problem. But I will tell you where my husbandry greatly differs from yours. The first is water- you say you mist. That is OK *if* it is so light that your substrate dries out within a few minutes. If you have a damp substrate for hours every day this invites bacteria which I suppose could also be the root of the problem here- bacterial infection spreading around internally could effect the nervous system or create a toxic situation within the lizard the lizard I suppose. So my first point is- I keep my substrate dry. Second area- I use much warmer temperatures. I know some have used cooler temps closer to yours, my dragons clearly prefer warmer (100-110) under the basking light and show better colors and behaviors. Warmer temps effect digestion, ability to absorb and use nutrients, create d3 from uvb, and immune system function. I use d3 daily. Never had an overdose problem and have been breeding lots of dragons since 1994. I use rep-cal with d3 but only on feeder insects- not salad, and by the time they are adults, I use very few feeder insects, mainly undusted salad and pellets- so that may be relevant when talking about d3. 1x per week I use a good multivitamin for babies. (Reptivite or herptivite are fine). When I used mainly commercially grown crickets- lack of multivitamin would cause problems in some baby dragons over time. Mostly I grow my own insects now, and because of my gutloading I can get away with less or no multivitamin, but still use it because it is a safety net.

I guess going along with the toxic theme- possible for your greens to have a little pesticide on it and she ate it?

I don't know- sorry I can't be more help. Maybe a photo would clue me in.

she has great lighting now, its the long tube uvb bulbs im sure that the uvb is okay as i use the same bulbs for all my other dragons and they are doing great. I added another uvb bulb for my female bearded dragon and another heat lamp to up the temperatures on the warm side of the cage. I have been gently syringe feeding her water and force fed her once appropriate size roach as to keep her strength up. I also have been doing the range of motion as suggested. She got a short bath today and I have been monitoring her very closely. She still slides around and her legs seem to be coming back little by little. I really hope she makes it as she is one of my favorite bearded dragons. Her cage was pretty warm though maybe a little higher than I said in the first post. The greens are rinsed before I ever feed her them and the gutloaded roaches eat oranges and flukers cricket chow. I am going to really monitor all her dieting though. Thanks for the ideas guys i really appreciate them.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
does her legs ever come down?

What temp is the floor of the cage?

did feed her prey a little to big for her?

id like to see pictures of this dragon....

if the limbs are not rock stiff. i would start doing range of motion on them. do this twice a day everyday until she regains use of the limbs. just move the legs in natural motions for about 5-10 minutes. this will keep muscle tone and keep them lose.

id also soak her daily in warm water for about 5 minutes.

lastly i would give her a little bit of mineral oil.
ive been soaking once a day warm water. i have been syringe watering so the cage doesnt get wet. I have supplemented with reptaid as to kill any parasites or bacteria and to help out with making sure she is supplemented. the cage temp is 100 now on the warm side in a 45 gallon. her legs are bowed up when i pick her up and she has trouble getting the back legs on the ground its creepy and sad...
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:18 PM
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so does her legs eventually come back to the ground and does she walk around at all?
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2011, 10:24 PM
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Maybe its time for a vet visit?
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ataraxia View Post
so does her legs eventually come back to the ground and does she walk around at all?
she is gaining back strength and seeming to be going in the right direction... im going to contact a vet soon if problems at all persist. but i am still open to any opinions or suggestions

but to answer your question her legs seem to somewhat be going back to the ground but its like her hind legs are being pulled behind her with strings it is really odd... she is alert but seems to shake and shiver... i really feel it is neurological. im going to contact blood bank dragons and see if they have had any other problems such as this as i know many white lines are in breed to get certain traits to be vibrant which can cause bad genetics.

Last edited by djfishygillz; 12-11-2011 at 11:22 PM. Reason: forgot info
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