what would happen if...

Paco

Member
what do you guys think would happen if you breed a veiled with a panther? would you get a smaller casque with bright colors? or is this not possible? i just got curius sorry if it sounds stupid :rolleyes::p
 

ajacobson

New Member
It's not possible. They are different species. I would imagine that it's almost like trying to get a house cat and a tiger to breed. Yea, they are both "cats" but it probably doesn't work. lol :)
 

Paco

Member
It's not possible. They are different species. It's almost like trying to get a house cat and a tiger to breed. Yea, they are both "cats" but it just doesn't work. lol :)

awww okay :( it sounds right though haha it would be pretty kool, imagine a veiled with panther colors :cool:
 

Elizadolots

New Member
Is that just an assumption that's made or has someone tried it? There are lots of hybrids that live but are not viable breeders.

For that matter, has anyone ever held a male house kitty up to a female tiger so he can do his stuff and see what the result is? Tigers and lions can breed, they just produce infertile progeny

Link to picture of a "tion" or "tigon" cross between a male tiger, female lion.

Link to a picture of a Liger cross between a male lion, female tiger.

Obviously we know that wild and domestic horses are sufficiently close in genetic structure that they can cross breed. Zebras have been bred to both horses and donkeys.


Domestic dogs can breed with wolves, and coyotes. Wolfs and coyotes can breed.

It's just not a straightforward "oh, no, that can't happen" thing.

I'm oh, so sure that Chris Anderson would not only know the answer to this but would have a really interesting explanation.
 

ajacobson

New Member
Is that just an assumption that's made or has someone tried it? There are lots of hybrids that live but are not viable breeders.

For that matter, has anyone ever held a male house kitty up to a female tiger so he can do his stuff and see what the result is? Tigers and lions can breed, they just produce infertile progeny

Link to picture of a "tion" or "tigon" cross between a male tiger, female lion.

Link to a picture of a Liger cross between a male lion, female tiger.

Obviously we know that wild and domestic horses are sufficiently close in genetic structure that they can cross breed. Zebras have been bred to both horses and donkeys.


Domestic dogs can breed with wolves, and coyotes. Wolfs and coyotes can breed.

It's just not a straightforward "oh, no, that can't happen" thing.

I'm oh, so sure that Chris Anderson would not only know the answer to this but would have a really interesting explanation.


Yea they did, unfortunately it ended tragically. lol only kidding..
 

Psi

New Member
Lion / Tiger Genetics

Lion:
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Felidae
Genus: Panthera
Species: P. leo

Tiger:
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Felidae
Genus: Panthera
Species: P. tigris

Wolf:
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Subfamily: Caninae
Tribe: Canini[2]
Genus: Canis
Species: C. lupus

Coyote:
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Genus: Canis
Species: C. latrans

As you can see in both cases they're very similar.


Panthers:
Order: Squamata
Family: Chamaeleonidae
Genus: Furcifer
Species: F. pardalis

Veileds:
Order: Squamata
Suborder: Sauria
Family: Chamaeleonidae
Genus: Chamaeleo
Species: C. calyptratus

These two are different.
You would likely have more success breeding within the Chamaeleo/Furcifer Genus, but I really wouldn't suggest trying this.
 

Monties1982

Avid Member
Lion / Tiger Genetics

Lion:
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Felidae
Genus: Panthera
Species: P. leo

Tiger:
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Felidae
Genus: Panthera
Species: P. tigris

Wolf:
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Subfamily: Caninae
Tribe: Canini[2]
Genus: Canis
Species: C. lupus

Coyote:
Order: Carnivora
Family: Canidae
Genus: Canis
Species: C. latrans

As you can see in both cases they're very similar.


Panthers:
Order: Squamata
Family: Chamaeleonidae
Genus: Furcifer
Species: F. pardalis

Veileds:
Order: Squamata
Suborder: Sauria
Family: Chamaeleonidae
Genus: Chamaeleo
Species: C. calyptratus

These two are different.
You would likely have more success breeding within the Chamaeleo/Furcifer Genus, but I really wouldn't suggest trying this.
Being in different genera doesn't necessarily mean they can't cross-breed. The breed of cat called the Savannah is a hybrid between a serval (Leptailurus serval) and a domestic cat (Felis catus). F1 generation Savannahs are very difficult to produce, but not impossible. The same could be true of panthers and veilds. In order to know for sure, someone would have to actually try cross-breeding them and see if you get any viable offspring.
 

Julirs

New Member
Being in different genera doesn't necessarily mean they can't cross-breed. The breed of cat called the Savannah is a hybrid between a serval (Leptailurus serval) and a domestic cat (Felis catus). F1 generation Savannahs are very difficult to produce, but not impossible. The same could be true of panthers and veilds. In order to know for sure, someone would have to actually try cross-breeding them and see if you get any viable offspring.

Carnivora Felidae Serval

Both are Carnivora Felidae
 

Paco

Member
this sounds intresting and only hope in the future we can see this happen and create a whole new species and a very spectacular one to.
 

ShaunaLynnA

New Member
okay I am not sure about the chameleon sources known say no so I would go with that! As for cats being bred with wild cats it is possible there are some breeds this has been done with and to name one a Savannah (domestic Cat with Serval). Just thought I would throw this out there since there was talk of you couldn't breed a wild cat to domestic :)
 

Syn

Avid Member
Well the search button would have been of use here....

https://www.chameleonforums.com/can-you-breed-panther-chameleon-veiled-chameleon-44886/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/breeding-panther-veiled-39352/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/can-panther-mate-veiled-37036/

And panthers and veilds are both Squamata Chamaeleonidae

Please recall Panthers were once thought of as Chamaeleo pardalis. Perhaps in the future the house cat and a serval will be recognized to be closer than we thought.
 

Monties1982

Avid Member
Well the search button would have been of use here....

https://www.chameleonforums.com/can-you-breed-panther-chameleon-veiled-chameleon-44886/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/breeding-panther-veiled-39352/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/can-panther-mate-veiled-37036/



Please recall Panthers were once thought of as Chamaeleo pardalis. Perhaps in the future the house cat and a serval will be recognized to be closer than we thought.
Wikipedia has this to say about that:

Genetic research has provided a basis for a more concise classification for the living members of the cat family based on genotypical groupings.[1][8][9] Specifically, eight genetic lineages have been identified:[10]

* Lineage 1: Panthera, Uncia, Neofelis
* Lineage 2: Pardofelis, Catopuma
* Lineage 3: Leptailurus, Caracal, Profelis
* Lineage 4: Leopardus
* Lineage 5: Lynx
* Lineage 6: Puma, Acinonyx
* Lineage 7: Prionailurus, Otocolobus
* Lineage 8: Felis

The last four lineages (5, 6, 7, 8) are more related to each other than to any of the first four (1, 2, 3, 4), and so form a clade within the Felinae subfamily of family Felidae.
 

Chris Anderson

Dr. House of Chameleons
Staff member
this sounds intresting and only hope in the future we can see this happen and create a whole new species and a very spectacular one to.

Hybridizing two species does not create a whole new species...

Furcifer pardalis and Chamaeleo calyptratus are too distantly related to interbreed successfully. For one thing, their karyotypes are incompatible (2n=24=12M+12m for Chamaeleo and 2n=22=20M+2m for Furcifer pardalis). In other words, their chromosome numbers and structure differences alone would prohibit fertilization. It won't happen.

Chris
 
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