GooglezNvincent
New Member
I am very close to getting a really good deal on a Faly male, what would be a cool breed? I am thinking Faly and Ambanja to get more redish and make the offsrping really vibrant
What would be a sick breed with a Faly?
- Thread starter GooglezNvincent
- Start date
reyesjoshuacruz
Established Member
faly and ank, the ank females are all other the place right now
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
I am not to opposed to trying crosses... But in this case if you have the ability to acquire a nice Faly male I would say the best breed would be a Faly Female. Such a cool Locale, and definately more rarely seen... I would rather see more Nosy Falys on the market than Nosy Faly Crosses. Just my two cents. Good Luck.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
If by cool you mean a complete waste. Sorry, I am very anti crossing locales of different panther chameleons. They are all the same species but in my opinion it is important to maintain pure locale bloodlines whenever possible. I find hybrids hideous looking and much prefer the standard locale look. Hybrids are worth much less and it is very important that they do not enter into breeding projects and are then mislabeled as pure locales. Here are a couple threads you should read:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/why-not-breed-ambilobe-7124/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/naturally-occuring-panther-hybrids-13765/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/panther-hybrids-329/
Chris
https://www.chameleonforums.com/why-not-breed-ambilobe-7124/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/naturally-occuring-panther-hybrids-13765/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/panther-hybrids-329/
Chris
Dean Pulcini
Avid Member
I'll have a female N.faly ready in the near future. Don't cross breed like already stated hybrids are hard to sell and we don't need more people polluting the gene pool.
GooglezNvincent
New Member
My apologies! If I cross I would definitely keep it for myself, I do understand though the essentialness of keeping the newly discovered pure. Thank you for the input! Dan Pulcini hit me up with a PM and let me know you pricing for her, thanks!
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
You'd keep an entire clutch of 20-30 hybrids for yourself? Chameleons don't just have one baby at a time, they lay clutches that can be quite large.
Chris
Dean Pulcini
Avid Member
No apologies required we've been down this road many times when your stuck with a clutch of unwanted chameleons most people don't have the heart to discard them so they end up on the market cheap as whatever and with the females there's no telling what they are.
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
While I disagree with Chris about the principles of cross breding panther locales, I would say it's not a right/wrong thing in this case. It would be downright stupid. They are a very rare form in captivity, and should be established more before you go on and do something like that.
Fact is, most crosses are ugly. All of them, in fact, when first crosses, are not as nice as the natural locales. Selective forces have shaped their coloration for a very long time.
Crossing them WILL result in interesting and beautiful color variations, in time, but that's the key.
It will take lots of time, lots of crosses, lots of selection and lots of ugly babies before you get something that looks as nice as one of the natual locales.
If you were to be sure they didn't get mixed up with natural locales, then go at it. But it is going to be a long long time, and a lot of money, before ou come up with a line of babies that is worth propagating.
The Kammers have some that are up there, but look at how much they have been crossed - the nice ones have 3-4 locales mixed in. That shows how much time and how many corsses were needed to result in an animal like that.
If selective breeding can turn leopard geckos into what they are now, it could make many more panther varieties than exist in nature. That's one of the motivating factors behind such crosses. Another one is one-time breeders, who do it for the heck of it, and then have a bunch of ugly little babies to sell. And the REAL problem, which woudl piss me off, is when they see their 30, ugly little babies crawling around, and can't sell them for more than $20... and look at the price of pure females... and then you have yourself a chain reaction of genetic frustration that may never end.
One person making a "little lie" (they are, after all, HALF ambilobe...) could mess up the bloodline of thousands of chameleons in a few years time.
You hatch out a mixed clutch, and you will be greatly tempted to sell the females as pure. Who the hell wants a mixed female? Not many people.
Fact is, most crosses are ugly. All of them, in fact, when first crosses, are not as nice as the natural locales. Selective forces have shaped their coloration for a very long time.
Crossing them WILL result in interesting and beautiful color variations, in time, but that's the key.
It will take lots of time, lots of crosses, lots of selection and lots of ugly babies before you get something that looks as nice as one of the natual locales.
If you were to be sure they didn't get mixed up with natural locales, then go at it. But it is going to be a long long time, and a lot of money, before ou come up with a line of babies that is worth propagating.
The Kammers have some that are up there, but look at how much they have been crossed - the nice ones have 3-4 locales mixed in. That shows how much time and how many corsses were needed to result in an animal like that.
If selective breeding can turn leopard geckos into what they are now, it could make many more panther varieties than exist in nature. That's one of the motivating factors behind such crosses. Another one is one-time breeders, who do it for the heck of it, and then have a bunch of ugly little babies to sell. And the REAL problem, which woudl piss me off, is when they see their 30, ugly little babies crawling around, and can't sell them for more than $20... and look at the price of pure females... and then you have yourself a chain reaction of genetic frustration that may never end.
One person making a "little lie" (they are, after all, HALF ambilobe...) could mess up the bloodline of thousands of chameleons in a few years time.
You hatch out a mixed clutch, and you will be greatly tempted to sell the females as pure. Who the hell wants a mixed female? Not many people.
GooglezNvincent
New Member
I know that lol im that that dumb, but yes i would i have kept a clutch of 10 before. I have the means to do so and i absolutely LOVE chams so i would do n e thing for them! and worst comes to worst i can always sell by word of mouth, not on the forums to keep the hybrids out of the major market
GooglezNvincent
New Member
I agree with you, i make the mistake of thinking people are honest like me. I keep track of my clutches and not them dutily! i do ssee how people could lie and cause MANY people LOTS of strife and anguish trying to figure out what went wronge when the only thing that was wrong was that the initial breeder was a dirty liar
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
Even if you sell them by word of mouth, they end up on the market one way or another. You can keep 20-30 young ones no problem, but accommodating 20-30 adult chams that require at lest a 2x2x3 enclosure is another story.
GooglezNvincent
New Member
Good point, well i do see the pros and cons and i can definately say you wont be hearing from me about any Faly ambanja crosses for a while, but you will hopefully hear from me about Faly pure bred soon 
Ryan Jarosek
New Member
Good point, well i do see the pros and cons and i can definately say you wont be hearing from me about any Faly ambanja crosses for a while, but you will hopefully hear from me about Faly pure bred soon
I'll take two
GooglezNvincent
New Member
I'll take two
Ha ha ha ha wow high roller! that would prolly be n e where from 1000-1500$
I wish i could afford something like that, if you can i definately envy you!
merumontanus
Avid Member
I'm as excited about crossing locales as I am about intergrades, but can we please move away from using the term "Breeds"? Perhaps we could create a sticky establishing the appropriate terminology? And while I'm on a rant, maybe we could even add to that long list of "principles" the correct use of binomial nomenclature and apostrophes in common names. Now, wouldn't that be nice?
I've had to get that off my chest for years. Much better.
Fabián
GooglezNvincent
New Member
Thanks always need correction on gramatical errors, who cares about the awesome chameleons we are talking about if we cant type the proper terminology right?! THANKS MAN YOU ARE GREAT!
merumontanus
Avid Member
Hehe, I sense a bit of sarcasm in your tone. In all seriousness, though, I'm glad you're receiving everyone's input regarding the cross of pardalis locales. Things may get a bit more complicated as you explore the possibility of sympatric (overlapping) locales and their crossing in the wild (though I'm far from being an expert on pardalis, so I can't comment further on that)-- but in general terms, and as you have come to understand, it is best to maintain the "purity" of a locale (or even population).
And regarding "grammatical errors"-- you'd be surprised to see how many of us still don't understand how to write scientific names (rules) or even common names (it's Parson's and Meller's and Jackson's chameleons, not parsons, mellers or jacksons), which is why I think a sticky would be appropriate.
Moderators?
And regarding "grammatical errors"-- you'd be surprised to see how many of us still don't understand how to write scientific names (rules) or even common names (it's Parson's and Meller's and Jackson's chameleons, not parsons, mellers or jacksons), which is why I think a sticky would be appropriate.
Moderators?
GooglezNvincent
New Member
Ha ha ha im just playin with ya! i only say that b cuz i am not good with the scientific names, but yes you are right.
