Saw a large shipment there they have decent husbandry but i feel bad for them. i know they do great shiping and they are only $75 a piece all males horns are intact and generally look decent i have seen them all eat and drink while i was there on several occasions. i feel bad as there are several adult pairs in a large cage 10+ pairs. i know alot of people hate petstores but they are decent people who really listen and care for their animals and usually the only chams housed in multiples are their baby chams. They lack the space to seaperate them all i doubt they planned on having them for this long.....
WC Jacksons at BS Reptile
- Thread starter Courtney
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xanthoman
Avid Member
wc jackson's ?
this is a curiosity for me. as i understand it, all wc jacksons would be illegal, unless maybe they were harvested in fl. or ca./ kenya stopped exporting xanths in the early 80s, tanzania only exports a limited# as farm raised. the hawaiian permit, as i understand it, states not for resale or commercial purposes. but they are now established in ca as well as fl. and im not sure as to what the laws would be in regards to those locations ? so i would be interested to know their origin. i did not see them on their website which makes me even more curious, so i will ph BS reptiles tomorrow to see what else i can find out.
this is a curiosity for me. as i understand it, all wc jacksons would be illegal, unless maybe they were harvested in fl. or ca./ kenya stopped exporting xanths in the early 80s, tanzania only exports a limited# as farm raised. the hawaiian permit, as i understand it, states not for resale or commercial purposes. but they are now established in ca as well as fl. and im not sure as to what the laws would be in regards to those locations ? so i would be interested to know their origin. i did not see them on their website which makes me even more curious, so i will ph BS reptiles tomorrow to see what else i can find out.
Warrix642
New Member
All wc jacsons are illegal? Which ones?
Lizardlover
New Member
Hey courtney, Im going in tomorrow, Ill ask them about it.
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
I think most WC xantholophus in the states are shipped here from Hawaii, so that information cannot be right. Perhaps for non-commercial individuals ... but most Jackson's you find for sale (Kingsnake, etc) are WC and shipped here from Hawaii.
-Brad
-Brad
Lizardlover
New Member
Figured as much......
xanthoman
Avid Member
as stated by the hdnr "Any person wanting to export a chameleon from Hawaii must obtain an export permit from the Division of Forestry and Wildlife office on the island of Oahu only. The office is located at 1151 Punchbowl St., Rm. 325, Honolulu, Hawaii 96813 (808) 587-0166. We will need your photo identification card. Whether you catch it yourself or purchase it you still need an export permit. The maximum number you can export is four, and you may only do so one time. You may not export chameleons for commercial purposes".// i have been repeatedly told (by hdnr) in numerous phone conversations that there is "no legal provision for commercial export of chams from hawaii" (except by permit for scientific purposes) they want you to fill out and pickup the permit in person so it is hard to verify the actual wording. just because there is wc on kingsnake that doesnt make them legal (not that i wouldnt consider buying one, shame on me)
xanthoman
Avid Member
i had an unexpected birthing today (will post more on that shortly) so i didnt have enough time to deal with it , but its on the list for tomorrow, if i have enough time to get to it.
CONGRATS!!!!! Cant wait to read all about it
xanthoman
Avid Member
an update directly from hdfw and bs reptiles
today i talked to Amy from hdfw (hawaii dept. of forestry and wildlife) and Ben Siegel of ben siegel reptiles and this is what i learned ; NOT MUCH !/ amy of hdfw has again re-iterated that there is "no provision for commercial export of jackson's from hawaii", (except by special scientific permit available only to zoos and verifiable accredited scientists working in a verifiable relationship with zoos and or educational institutuions, still not for resale to general public) according to her the (standard) permit clearly states "not for resale or commercial purposes" and there is "no legal provision for legal exportation of jacksonii xantholophus from hawaii for purposes of resale or commercial gain" i asked (again, as i have inquired into this matter several dozen times) if i could be emailed a copy of the permit itself so i could review the wording. i was flatly denied, they do not issue the permit until they have been presented with paperwork from a consenting airline and personal id , they will not mail or fax the permit, their reason being is that they have had too many problems with people trying to "doctor or counterfeit" the permits./ i then called ben siegel reptiles and the person at the store knew nothing, and i was reffered to Ben Siegel himself. i implied i was looking for wild caught jackson's, he said that they were definitely wild caught. i then inquired as to their origins, (as i pointed out to him the stance of kenya, tanzania and hawaii on exportation of wc jackson's) he at that point said that he "got them from a show and really has no idea of where they came from" ?/ i asked him for pictures and said he had picture posted on ks, i also find it interesting that his ks ad makes no mention of being wc/ very interesting and somewhat suspicious, although i will admit the ones pictured are nice looking specimens with high blue content, if i wasnt trying to downsize (which isnt going very well by the way), i would consider buying at least one myself (and shame on me considering their origin and possible legality is at issue)/ if anyone has ever done this successfully and still has a copy of the permit or airline paperwork i would LOVE to see it as this has been discussed adnauseum on multiple forums in previous posts https://www.chameleonforums.com/shipping-jacksons-hawaii-anyone-done-successfully-28592/
today i talked to Amy from hdfw (hawaii dept. of forestry and wildlife) and Ben Siegel of ben siegel reptiles and this is what i learned ; NOT MUCH !/ amy of hdfw has again re-iterated that there is "no provision for commercial export of jackson's from hawaii", (except by special scientific permit available only to zoos and verifiable accredited scientists working in a verifiable relationship with zoos and or educational institutuions, still not for resale to general public) according to her the (standard) permit clearly states "not for resale or commercial purposes" and there is "no legal provision for legal exportation of jacksonii xantholophus from hawaii for purposes of resale or commercial gain" i asked (again, as i have inquired into this matter several dozen times) if i could be emailed a copy of the permit itself so i could review the wording. i was flatly denied, they do not issue the permit until they have been presented with paperwork from a consenting airline and personal id , they will not mail or fax the permit, their reason being is that they have had too many problems with people trying to "doctor or counterfeit" the permits./ i then called ben siegel reptiles and the person at the store knew nothing, and i was reffered to Ben Siegel himself. i implied i was looking for wild caught jackson's, he said that they were definitely wild caught. i then inquired as to their origins, (as i pointed out to him the stance of kenya, tanzania and hawaii on exportation of wc jackson's) he at that point said that he "got them from a show and really has no idea of where they came from" ?/ i asked him for pictures and said he had picture posted on ks, i also find it interesting that his ks ad makes no mention of being wc/ very interesting and somewhat suspicious, although i will admit the ones pictured are nice looking specimens with high blue content, if i wasnt trying to downsize (which isnt going very well by the way), i would consider buying at least one myself (and shame on me considering their origin and possible legality is at issue)/ if anyone has ever done this successfully and still has a copy of the permit or airline paperwork i would LOVE to see it as this has been discussed adnauseum on multiple forums in previous posts https://www.chameleonforums.com/shipping-jacksons-hawaii-anyone-done-successfully-28592/
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