VeilxPanther (crossbreed)

Pochii

New Member
Hello everyone, So sorry for an informal introduction of myself.

Around January of this year, I moved into my fraternity house, One of my pledge brothers had already been residing there for the semester before and he has been an avid reptile fan. Mainly a snake, 2 bearded dragons, 2 tarantulas,... anyways, he began with a veil who was very mean. And I began taking a liking into his reptiles when He bought a panther male and 2 female panthers. and lets just say I am hooked on the panther chams... they are absolutely adorable.

recently, he built a cage with the chams in their own enclosures but right next to each other like so


+++++++++++++++++++++++
+ + + +
+ + + 2FP +
+ MP + MV + +
+ + + +
+ + + +
+++++++++++++++++++++++


MP= Male Panther
MV= Male veil
2FP = 2 female panthers (no problem in same cage)

Anyways, While he was gone he asked me to take care of them, which I did.

I noticed one of the females was eyeballing the veil.. I asked him about it and he said it was impossible.
A day later I come to mist their cage and I catch them doing the dirty. She somehow broke into the males cage and mated with him.

He thought nothing of it, But I monitered her closely and did my own research online, She was definately getting pregnant. (he can be stubborn sometimes since hes the reptile guy)


Anyways, So i called out her digging and after she laid her eggs, we pulled the potted plant out and found a clutch of eggs. We found many of the eggs to have veins and assumed them to be fertile and placed them to incubation (now he takes my recomendations into consideration)

I wanted to see your guys's thoughts on this?


Also, We recently bought another ambilobe virgin whose about a year and 3 months.

we tried mating her with the male panther since we sold the veil since what happened last time. But when we introduce the male into the female enclosure... He seems to be too aggressive and moving to fast on her. And when we do vice versa with the female in his cage. He moves to slow and watches from a distance. almost as if uninterested. I know I posted a lot here. Hopefully someone can give their insight :p btw, I love chams so much now :D
 

Pochii

New Member
Woah thats wierd. my desgin of the cages came out wrong... Anyways. Its three cages built side by side with wire mesh all around and special air conditiong vents to block the views of eachother in between cages.
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
Any chance this female could have mated with a panther at any time in the last year? Sometimes they can lay eggs from retained sperm. Even if they are somehow fertile from the veiled I bet none of them will hatch. These two species are too different genetically to produce viable offspring by all scientific standards. But keep us posted because if it magically worked they'd be very popular. ;)

Btw it's best to have visual barriers between cages right next to each other.
 
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imcurt

Avid Member
So have you been watching cartoons like catDog? lol
I find it hard to beleve the female pursued the male.
If a mating did take place the eggs will not be fertle.
Just my opion
 

hallenhe

Avid Member
Veiled (Chameleo calyptratus) and panther (Furcifer pardalis) are not only different species but different genera. That should be sufficient genetic distance to prevent the formation of viable offspring (perhaps the eggs were fertilized and division began, but I would expect serious (= fatal) problems in sorting the chromosomes at cell division, because they're likely to be different numbers in the different parent species.
 

Stanly

New Member
This is a frat house, my bet is one if the "brothers" put her in as a joke (bad joke at that). There are reports of cross species breeding but to my knowledge they did not produce offspring.
 

Pochii

New Member
well, I found it wierd myself But they were looking oddly at eachother, I denied it myself Untill I walked in on them with him ontop of her. we did have visual barriers but not at the very top there there was ample room still. we have fixed it since then.

I could be left over sperm, But to our knowledge she was a virgin before hand. and the timeline from the mating to the egg laying is just too on point. If I can get a good camera I will do some pictures for you all :)
 

Pochii

New Member
Also, About the panther mating with the new female. The panther I believe is a Nosey-bee and the female is a red-ambilobe (sorry for those who are against cross-breeding) Do you have recomendations of making optimal mating enviroments for them?
 

Pochii

New Member
My school is a small liberal arts college, It dosent have nationally recognized fraternity's but actually what is called societies which stemmed from secret societies that formed in the 30's but are now open on campus
 

sdheli420

Established Member
ya i have heard of water dragons and bearded dragons "liking" eachother alot..but no water beardies have ever been produced


p.s. if you do get a batch of "peileds chameleons" or "veildsers chameleon" i will give you 500 cash per cham.. LOL

rare-est of the rare..haha
 

imcurt

Avid Member
ya i have heard of water dragons and bearded dragons "liking" eachother alot..but no water beardies have ever been produced


p.s. if you do get a batch of "peileds chameleons" or "veildsers chameleon" i will give you 500 cash per cham.. LOL

rare-est of the rare..haha
love that peileds chameleon name!!!! lol There have been many atemps! also many threads on this, but NO peiled chams as of yet.
 

fluxlizard

Avid Member
I tried already back in the 90s when I was young and (I now think) stupid (because such a cross would not be an improvement on either).
The male panthers and veileds will breed with the other species, eggs will not be viable.
 

tadeusz

Member
A little off the topic, but do you think that a Furcifer Verrocosus and Furcifer Oustaleti would produce viable offspring? I kind of wondered cause I have oustalets and I know verrocosus are a little more colorful, would be interesting...
 

antithesis123

New Member
Here's some interesting examples of cross breeding from this link http://everything2.org/index.pl?node_id=1528852

Hybrid Examples
There are many examples of two species of animals that have/can/do produce offspring. A well known example of this is the mule. While not terribly creative, these new hybrid animals are usually named by combining the common names of the parents. When the male and female of both species can each be combined to form the hybrid, it is the name of the male that is used first. For clarification of this, see the examples below:

•liger = male lion + female tiger
•tigon or tiglon = male tiger + female lion

•mule = male donkey + female horse
•hinny = male horse + female donkey (jenny)

•zorse = zebra + horse
•zonkey or zebrass = zebra + donkey (ass)
•cama = camel + llama
•catalo or beefalo = buffalo + cattle
•yakalo = yak + buffalo
•wholphin = whale + dolphin (specifically a false killer whale and a bottlenose dolphin)

•Toast of Botswana = goat + sheep
Obviously this deserves some clarification. While a sheep can be impregnated by a goat, the kid/lamb is always stillborn... except in one case in the early 1990s. This animal was nicknamed the Toast of Botswana. Since it was the only one ever known to have lived, no other name has been given to a goat/sheep combination.

•humanzee - there have been numerous reports of human/chimpanzee combinations, but none of these have been confirmed
•several species of cats can be bred including: lion/leopard, lion/jaguar, puma/leopard, bobcat/lynx, caracal/serval
•several species of canines including domestic dog/wolf, coyote/wolf, domestic dog/coyote
•several species of monkeys and apes can interbreed
•several species of deer and antelope can be interbred
•several species of snakes can be crossbred
•wild and domestic pigs can crossbreed
•African elephant and Asian elephants are known to have bred once in the past


I read an article in nat geo a while ago that had cool pictures.
 

antithesis123

New Member
I'm absolutely no expert, Maybe Chris Anderson can answer this but two different species can possibly mate and produce viable offspring if the one with the lesser amount of chromosomes is the male.. That is if it is going to happen at all!
 
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