Veiled acting very strange

Speelman

New Member
Hello !
I posted a thread here a little bit ago about my veiled and trying to switch him from crickets to dubias and not eating. I accepted the fact that the crickets need to stay until he is a little older, and about a day after I posted that thread he started shedding.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/hunger-strike-reposted.187110/#post-1730603

This is my previous post, the possible bruise on his chin has completely gone away and he has completely shed except for his tail, there is a slight ring around the very base of his tale of skin coming off but it is yet to come off. He has been done shedding for two or three days and nothing has happened.

IMG_4013.jpg


I am aware of the poop on the leaves I am cleaning cage today, hopefully my dragon stands are coming tomorrow and I am moving him into a 24"x24"x48"

This brings me to what I am worried about, since the shedding his eating has still been atrocious. Maybe 2 crickets and a hornworm a day, a couple days ago he ate 4 (I think) hornworms because I was worried and he actually seemed interested. But he has simply not seemed interested in food at all and has been EXTREMELY active. I have had him for around a month at this point and have never seen him move like he has been, just running circle around his enclosure all day with some short breaks to bask. And still not caring about food. I am happy I already have the bigger cage and am excited to move him into it but am concerned for his health. Could he be older than I think and just should be on an adult feeding schedule?
 

Speelman

New Member
Here is my care sheet from the other post.
  • Your Chameleon- The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
    • I think he is around 5 months old (No clue though), I have had him about a month.
  • Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
    • I have only handled at the reptile expo and moving him into this new enclosure.
  • Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
    • This is the issue, I try to feed him as early as I can in the morning, feeders are gutloaded with lugatia cricket feeder, and vegetables.
  • Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
    • zoo med repticalcium without d3 every day, with d3 maybe once a week.
  • Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
    • I used to hand mist but just recently purchased a monsoon automatic mister, I have it going 2 minutes in the morning and two minutes before bed, with some hand misting during the day occasionally.
  • Fecal Description- Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
    • droppings are looking good to my knowledge ! Poop is solid and brown/darker brown with eurate being mostly dry and light white. He has never been tested for parasites.
  • History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
    • I purchased him at a reptile expo and he came with a much younger female chameleon, both housed in a very small very poor glass enclosure. I quickly moved both of them into this new screened enclosure but had both of them together for a few days before I could find somewhere to rehome the girl. Obviously they did not get along the best and I do not know if at all or how long they were housed together before. I was mistakenly assured that they would be fine together and fine in the enclosure and feel very bad about stressing them out in such poor conditions for the time I did. Since the separation he seems much less stressed then when I originally got him.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
    • Large reptibreeze full screen enclosure (18",18",36") I have one side facing most of my room/bed/desk covered with blanket for humidity and just so he cant see me while im doing homework/being lazy, and another 1.5 sides sort of covered in press and seal (seran rap?) to try and trap some humidity in. I also have a blackout curtain in case I am up with lights on after his bed time.
    • 24"x24"x48" is already in my basement waiting for dragonstands to come, hopefully will move him this weekend.
  • Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
    • I have a 22" reptisun 10.0 UVB in a biomed cover and a 75 watt heat flood in a deep dome light for basking from scales and tales that are both on from 9am to 9pm
  • Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
    • I have one of the reptile control center things they sell at scales and tales that has 6 plugs, two heat sensors, and a humidity sensor. basking spot during the day is ambient 80-85 F and cage floor is between 65-70 normally. Just this week it started getting warm and our ac has been funky so they have shifted a little day to day but almost always within those ranges. I have a secondary ceramic heat bulb I have been turning on for just a few minutes, pointed mid level of the cage, if I notice much lower temperatures during the day. Night time temperatures have been 65-70 at the top and usually 50-60 at the bottom. watching today after switching all fake to live plants the bottom is 63 which is the highest I have seen so far. I have seen 51-53 sometimes at the bottom but never under 50.
  • Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
    • humidity during the day is 35-45% maintained solely through live plants and misting, at night after temperatures have dropped I run a fogger through the night and it normally gets to 55%ish, I am honestly lost to get it any higher.
  • Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
    • I have a large ficus tree, larger dracea tree of some sort, small ficus shrub, and one stalk of bamboo.
  • Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
    • It is in the corner of my bedroom in the basement, maybe 5 feet away from a ceiling vent that may or may not work. It is my bedroom and I am in college so I and roommates have been in and out, but I have been trying to limit interaction and he has been getting left a lone for as much as I can during the day. The cage is on a roughly foot and a half tall desk off of the floor.
  • Location- Where are you geographically located?
    • I am in northern colorful Colorado, USA
 

Speelman

New Member
A little update = I am wondering maybe he is just growing up ? He hissed/chirped/fake bit at me for the first time ever today before I even opened his enclosure.
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hello !
I posted a thread here a little bit ago about my veiled and trying to switch him from crickets to dubias and not eating. I accepted the fact that the crickets need to stay until he is a little older, and about a day after I posted that thread he started shedding.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/hunger-strike-reposted.187110/#post-1730603

This is my previous post, the possible bruise on his chin has completely gone away and he has completely shed except for his tail, there is a slight ring around the very base of his tale of skin coming off but it is yet to come off. He has been done shedding for two or three days and nothing has happened.

View attachment 324372

I am aware of the poop on the leaves I am cleaning cage today, hopefully my dragon stands are coming tomorrow and I am moving him into a 24"x24"x48"

This brings me to what I am worried about, since the shedding his eating has still been atrocious. Maybe 2 crickets and a hornworm a day, a couple days ago he ate 4 (I think) hornworms because I was worried and he actually seemed interested. But he has simply not seemed interested in food at all and has been EXTREMELY active. I have had him for around a month at this point and have never seen him move like he has been, just running circle around his enclosure all day with some short breaks to bask. And still not caring about food. I am happy I already have the bigger cage and am excited to move him into it but am concerned for his health. Could he be older than I think and just should be on an adult feeding schedule?
I think he looks to be around 6 months old and still has some growing to do. He has probably reached sexual maturity and is now patrolling his territory and looking for a mate. My males make regular patrols a few times daily. Losing appetite is a bit unusual for the always-hungry veileds though. Could just be that he has other priorities (finding a girl), but give me a few and I’ll review your husbandry.
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
  • Your Chameleon- The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
    • I think he is around 5 months old (No clue though), I have had him about a month.
  • Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
    • This is the issue, I try to feed him as early as I can in the morning, feeders are gutloaded with lugatia cricket feeder, and vegetables. He should be eating a variety and around 5 feeders daily at this age.
  • Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
    • zoo med repticalcium without d3 every day, with d3 maybe once a week. Yes to the calcium without D3 at every feeding. The calcium with D3 should be used one feeding every other week. Then you’ll need to use a multivitamin for one feeding every other week, alternating with the D3. Reptivite without D3 is a good one to use.
  • Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
    • I used to hand mist but just recently purchased a monsoon automatic mister, I have it going 2 minutes in the morning and two minutes before bed, with some hand misting during the day occasionally. Good
  • Fecal Description- Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
    • droppings are looking good to my knowledge ! Poop is solid and brown/darker brown with eurate being mostly dry and light white. He has never been tested for parasites. This is something you should have done as parasites can cause a decreased appetite.
  • History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
    • I purchased him at a reptile expo and he came with a much younger female chameleon, both housed in a very small very poor glass enclosure. I quickly moved both of them into this new screened enclosure but had both of them together for a few days before I could find somewhere to rehome the girl. Obviously they did not get along the best and I do not know if at all or how long they were housed together before. I was mistakenly assured that they would be fine together and fine in the enclosure and feel very bad about stressing them out in such poor conditions for the time I did. Since the separation he seems much less stressed then when I originally got him. Chameleons are not social and need to be housed separately. The vendor told you very wrong.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
    • Large reptibreeze full screen enclosure (18",18",36") I have one side facing most of my room/bed/desk covered with blanket for humidity and just so he cant see me while im doing homework/being lazy, and another 1.5 sides sort of covered in press and seal (seran rap?) to try and trap some humidity in. I also have a blackout curtain in case I am up with lights on after his bed time. As he’s a good size, being in the small enclosure is another reason for his increased activity. He’s wanting/needing more space.
    • 24"x24"x48" is already in my basement waiting for dragonstands to come, hopefully will move him this weekend. Very good.
  • Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
    • I have a 22" reptisun 10.0 UVB in a biomed cover and a 75 watt heat flood in a deep dome light for basking from scales and tales that are both on from 9am to 9pm The standard for uvb is a T5 with either a ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6%, which would then need to have a distance of 8-9” to basking level. Using a T5 with a 10.0, the basking area will need to be about 10-12” below the light.
  • Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
    • I have one of the reptile control center things they sell at scales and tales that has 6 plugs, two heat sensors, and a humidity sensor. basking spot during the day is ambient 80-85 F and cage floor is between 65-70 normally. Just this week it started getting warm and our ac has been funky so they have shifted a little day to day but almost always within those ranges. I have a secondary ceramic heat bulb I have been turning on for just a few minutes, pointed mid level of the cage, if I notice much lower temperatures during the day. I wouldn’t worry much about temp fluctautions during the day, unless they are significant and last more than an hour. Night time temperatures have been 65-70 at the top and usually 50-60 at the bottom. watching today after switching all fake to live plants the bottom is 63 which is the highest I have seen so far. I have seen 51-53 sometimes at the bottom but never under 50. Great drop at night.
  • Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
    • humidity during the day is 35-45% maintained solely through live plants and misting, at night after temperatures have dropped I run a fogger through the night and it normally gets to 55%ish, I am honestly lost to get it any higher. It can be hard to achieve high humidity at night. In addition to the fogger, you could try adding a couple of brief mistings at night.
  • Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
    • I have a large ficus tree, larger dracea tree of some sort, small ficus shrub, and one stalk of bamboo. If you have any artificial plants, you’ll need to replace them with real ones. Pothos is a staple for chameleons.
  • Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
    • It is in the corner of my bedroom in the basement, maybe 5 feet away from a ceiling vent that may or may not work. It is my bedroom and I am in college so I and roommates have been in and out, but I have been trying to limit interaction and he has been getting left a lone for as much as I can during the day. The cage is on a roughly foot and a half tall desk off of the floor. Good. The higher they are, the safer they feel.
  • Location- Where are you geographically located?
    • I am in northern colorful Colorado, USA
    • So I’d say you should definitely get a fecal check for parasites to rule that out as a cause for a decreased appetite. Your husbandry is pretty good and just needs a few tweaks.
 

MzLaurie11

Established Member
Hello, your chameleon looks very sad to me. Shedding is usually irratating and they can get moody and back off on eating. Each cham handles shedding a little differently so you will have to observe. Some eat a lot just before then quit eating for a few days and others do the opposite. For a growing boy i feel you should be feeding him more. Also the areas to be concerned about with stuck shed are wrists,elbows, ankles and tail. A band of stuck shed will act as a rubberband and can cut off blood supply and result in nacropsy. Death of the tissue. You dont have to remove the whole shed but break the band so to speak. Unless it is the bottom tip of the tail then remive it all. Since you dont handle him there is no trust built up. Take him out of the cage and keep him on you covered with a blanket until he calms down. Rub gently on the bottom part of the tail to release a shed, never the top as you can injure his spikes. Dont use anything dipped in water as it wont help they are dry shedders. The band is pretty high up on the tail and the whole tail may just shed at once. If other areas of the tail start shedfing then leave it be and just keep an eye on it. One thing about reptibreeze 24x24x48 is they are not as sturdy as the smaller cages as the screen doesnt get tight.so everyone comes up with unique ways to deal with it. I.used 1" x1" welding guard but i have seen lattice that works good as well as other things. check outba lot of pics before you start so you have some direction. The daistance from the basking bulb should ne whatever is needed to stay at 80 degrees so put your temp guage by where he basks and adjust the branch so that is achieved. The uvb doesnt give off much heat. I have t5 HO 10.0 the difference between 5 and 10 is the depth the light penetrates. 5 being 13-14" and 10 being 18-19". I also have a sansi plant light to keep the plants alive and it works well. Im in calif and rigt now we have having no humidity which is tanslating to a pain in the butt! Having a hard time getting it to even 25% and thats with hand misting and fogging! This little heat wave should pass soon. Well good luck to you hope some of my suggestions have helped. Oh be careful with the fogger of your guy likes to sit directly under it as mine got a RI from sitting under it espevislly at night .whhiv is when you should run it. Put it on med-low and run it from 3am to 7am or 4am to r8am. you.!ay have to get a timer setup.up
 

Speelman

New Member
  • Your Chameleon- The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
    • I think he is around 5 months old (No clue though), I have had him about a month.
  • Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
    • This is the issue, I try to feed him as early as I can in the morning, feeders are gutloaded with lugatia cricket feeder, and vegetables. He should be eating a variety and around 5 feeders daily at this age.
  • Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
    • zoo med repticalcium without d3 every day, with d3 maybe once a week. Yes to the calcium without D3 at every feeding. The calcium with D3 should be used one feeding every other week. Then you’ll need to use a multivitamin for one feeding every other week, alternating with the D3. Reptivite without D3 is a good one to use.
  • Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
    • I used to hand mist but just recently purchased a monsoon automatic mister, I have it going 2 minutes in the morning and two minutes before bed, with some hand misting during the day occasionally. Good
  • Fecal Description- Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
    • droppings are looking good to my knowledge ! Poop is solid and brown/darker brown with eurate being mostly dry and light white. He has never been tested for parasites. This is something you should have done as parasites can cause a decreased appetite.
  • History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
    • I purchased him at a reptile expo and he came with a much younger female chameleon, both housed in a very small very poor glass enclosure. I quickly moved both of them into this new screened enclosure but had both of them together for a few days before I could find somewhere to rehome the girl. Obviously they did not get along the best and I do not know if at all or how long they were housed together before. I was mistakenly assured that they would be fine together and fine in the enclosure and feel very bad about stressing them out in such poor conditions for the time I did. Since the separation he seems much less stressed then when I originally got him. Chameleons are not social and need to be housed separately. The vendor told you very wrong.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
    • Large reptibreeze full screen enclosure (18",18",36") I have one side facing most of my room/bed/desk covered with blanket for humidity and just so he cant see me while im doing homework/being lazy, and another 1.5 sides sort of covered in press and seal (seran rap?) to try and trap some humidity in. I also have a blackout curtain in case I am up with lights on after his bed time. As he’s a good size, being in the small enclosure is another reason for his increased activity. He’s wanting/needing more space.
    • 24"x24"x48" is already in my basement waiting for dragonstands to come, hopefully will move him this weekend. Very good.
  • Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
    • I have a 22" reptisun 10.0 UVB in a biomed cover and a 75 watt heat flood in a deep dome light for basking from scales and tales that are both on from 9am to 9pm The standard for uvb is a T5 with either a ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6%, which would then need to have a distance of 8-9” to basking level. Using a T5 with a 10.0, the basking area will need to be about 10-12” below the light.
  • Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
    • I have one of the reptile control center things they sell at scales and tales that has 6 plugs, two heat sensors, and a humidity sensor. basking spot during the day is ambient 80-85 F and cage floor is between 65-70 normally. Just this week it started getting warm and our ac has been funky so they have shifted a little day to day but almost always within those ranges. I have a secondary ceramic heat bulb I have been turning on for just a few minutes, pointed mid level of the cage, if I notice much lower temperatures during the day. I wouldn’t worry much about temp fluctautions during the day, unless they are significant and last more than an hour. Night time temperatures have been 65-70 at the top and usually 50-60 at the bottom. watching today after switching all fake to live plants the bottom is 63 which is the highest I have seen so far. I have seen 51-53 sometimes at the bottom but never under 50. Great drop at night.
  • Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
    • humidity during the day is 35-45% maintained solely through live plants and misting, at night after temperatures have dropped I run a fogger through the night and it normally gets to 55%ish, I am honestly lost to get it any higher. It can be hard to achieve high humidity at night. In addition to the fogger, you could try adding a couple of brief mistings at night.
  • Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
    • I have a large ficus tree, larger dracea tree of some sort, small ficus shrub, and one stalk of bamboo. If you have any artificial plants, you’ll need to replace them with real ones. Pothos is a staple for chameleons.
  • Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
    • It is in the corner of my bedroom in the basement, maybe 5 feet away from a ceiling vent that may or may not work. It is my bedroom and I am in college so I and roommates have been in and out, but I have been trying to limit interaction and he has been getting left a lone for as much as I can during the day. The cage is on a roughly foot and a half tall desk off of the floor. Good. The higher they are, the safer they feel.
  • Location- Where are you geographically located?
    • I am in northern colorful Colorado, USA
    • So I’d say you should definitely get a fecal check for parasites to rule that out as a cause for a decreased appetite. Your husbandry is pretty good and just needs a few tweaks.
Thank you for all of this ! I have actually been trying to exact same thing with the waxworms ! I also do have a little camping chair right out front of his cage that I have been sitting in a lot to do homework. Since he has been on a little bit of a hunger strike I have laid off the waxworms to not start bad habits but I did give him one yesterday and even in his little angry mood he came and grabbed it off my hand.
I am sitting around right now waiting for the dragon stand delivery but as soon as I get him into the 24" I am going to grab a pothos and some multivitamin. I have only live plants now with some fake vines just to give him more ways to get up and down the cage, medium dracea, big ficus, and little ficus right now. Excited to add more.
And they are definitely not housed together anymore, I found another animal lover to take the younger girl !
I will adjust the T10 so that his basking is a little lower in the bigger enclosure, and first poop Im taking to the vet !

Thank you !
 

Speelman

New Member
Hello, your chameleon looks very sad to me. Shedding is usually irratating and they can get moody and back off on eating. Each cham handles shedding a little differently so you will have to observe. Some eat a lot just before then quit eating for a few days and others do the opposite. For a growing boy i feel you should be feeding him more. Also the areas to be concerned about with stuck shed are wrists,elbows, ankles and tail. A band of stuck shed will act as a rubberband and can cut off blood supply and result in nacropsy. Death of the tissue. You dont have to remove the whole shed but break the band so to speak. Unless it is the bottom tip of the tail then remive it all. Since you dont handle him there is no trust built up. Take him out of the cage and keep him on you covered with a blanket until he calms down. Rub gently on the bottom part of the tail to release a shed, never the top as you can injure his spikes. Dont use anything dipped in water as it wont help they are dry shedders. The band is pretty high up on the tail and the whole tail may just shed at once. If other areas of the tail start shedfing then leave it be and just keep an eye on it. One thing about reptibreeze 24x24x48 is they are not as sturdy as the smaller cages as the screen doesnt get tight.so everyone comes up with unique ways to deal with it. I.used 1" x1" welding guard but i have seen lattice that works good as well as other things. check outba lot of pics before you start so you have some direction. The daistance from the basking bulb should ne whatever is needed to stay at 80 degrees so put your temp guage by where he basks and adjust the branch so that is achieved. The uvb doesnt give off much heat. I have t5 HO 10.0 the difference between 5 and 10 is the depth the light penetrates. 5 being 13-14" and 10 being 18-19". I also have a sansi plant light to keep the plants alive and it works well. Im in calif and rigt now we have having no humidity which is tanslating to a pain in the butt! Having a hard time getting it to even 25% and thats with hand misting and fogging! This little heat wave should pass soon. Well good luck to you hope some of my suggestions have helped. Oh be careful with the fogger of your guy likes to sit directly under it as mine got a RI from sitting under it espevislly at night .whhiv is when you should run it. Put it on med-low and run it from 3am to 7am or 4am to r8am. you.!ay have to get a timer setup.up
I am going to wait until I am moving him and then see what I can do with the tail shed, I feel like its probably best not to take him out today and mess with him just to put him back in and then grab him again when its time to move but thank you for the tip of covering my hand with something.
I have only been running the fogger at night when the temperature drops aswell.
 
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