Unexpectedly acquired breeding group..

Susan

New Member
Hello Everyone, I would first like to introduce myself my name is Susan I live in Ontario Canada and I have recently and unexpectedly acquired a fantastically colored group of adult panther chameleons Ambilobe and Nosy Be’s.

I have lots of experience breeding geckos and pythons but not so much with breeding chameleons. I have hatched out a couple of clutches of Veiled Chameleons in the past but I am sure there are some differences with breeding panthers. I have a couple of questions that only experience will answer; I was hoping I could get some help.

First off, all of the panthers are captive bred from a reputable breeder in the U.S. I am their third owner it seems not including the breeder. I have heard that breeding captive bred panther to captive bred panther has been known to cause weakness in offspring, is this true? I have lineages for all of these chameleons and it seems there is a good genetic mix, should I be concerned? I do plan on adding some wild blood to any offspring that I hold back for future breeding.

Unfortunately the previous well meaning owner was not able to provide a good environment for these panthers and they are, for lack of better words, a little beat up. I have them set-up in a temperature controlled building set at 82 degrees at the peak of the day. Each has sufficient lighting and basking areas. The humidity in the building is about 80-90% most of the day. I have been reading about vitamin deficiencies and how it can effect shedding in chameleons and have noticed that a couple of the males seem to have almost a thin layer of shed that is starting to peel off but it doesn’t look like a normal full blown shed. I use Cod Liver Oil as a supplement for some of my geckos and also for Lacerta’s because it is high in vitamin D and A. Can I use this sparingly to supplement these chameleons or am I going to risk problems with to much vitamin D? I have been using Mineral 0 sparingly as a daily supplement and Rep Cal w/D3 once a week. So far I have them on a diet of crickets but have started roach colonies to also supplement their diet.

There will be no attempt at breeding on my part until the chameleons are 100% healthy

Along with these chameleons I was given about 200 eggs, and unfortunately they were kept in the previous owner’s basement (sigh). I generally go by the “don’t throw it out until the bitter end” rule and have put them in my incubator. Some of them look like there may be hope, the eggs laid at earlier dates are much bigger in comparison to younger eggs and when I candle them I can see that there is something there but the older eggs do not look full. I believe (and correct me if I am wrong) that pigmentation is one of the last things to develop, when candling your eggs do you see the egg get fuller as they mature or do they appear to be full just a couple weeks before they hatch.

I apologize for the novel of questions, but I had no intentions of breeding chameleons this kind of just fell in my lap. I am really enjoying working with them so far and I really appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Susan Charlton
 
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Hi Susan and welcome to the forum. I would recommend you visit the website of chroma chameleons, one of our sponsors for a brief but substantial info sheet on caring for panthers, chromachameleons.com then just click on the care tab. You'll find correct temps, vitamin supplementation (how and how much) watering, temps, etc.

Another web page I found full of information is chameleoncompany.com also a member here, he's website is full of valuable info.

I wouldn't discard any eggs as you said, no matter the size, unless they look obviously bad or with mold.

I am not sure what you mean about breeding captive breed panther to captive breed panther, so if youd elaborate?

I would also suggest you get them up to optimal conditions before any further breeding attempts.

Do you know the approximate age of your chams?

I am also in Onario, Toronto, and starting breeding panthers as well so is nice to see the community in Canada is growing. Here in the forum you'll find many valuable answers and in my personall experience, when in doubt, I use the search on the forum and the answer is there 90% of the time, if not withing minutes some one is helping already. It's a great forum!
 
Hi susan

You pose several questions that suggest that these chams are in need of special attention.

Vitamin A is easily overdosed so take care when attempting to supplement vit A. Too much will cause organ damage.

Regarding breeding CB Panthers. I would assume the pervassive opinion that CB breeding produces weaker offspring may stem from unscrupulous line breeding. This happens when breeders don't care to diversify their bloodlines or in the event that new blood is unavailable.

Your constant 82F environment may be problematic. Are you producing a heat gradient for the chams? Temps should range from room temps ( 72F) to 85F at the basking spot. Are you providing UVB lighting?

Your immediate concern should be hydration and heat . Consider showering each cham each day for 10 minutes. Then get a supplementation schedule going .

Candling eggs will show very little until the last 6 - 8 weeks. Thats when the dramatic growth occurs.
 
Hi Harry and Chameleoholic (sorry I do not know your real name),

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, I gut load my crickets with fresh vegetables and home made cricket food that I have been using for years for my geckos. Do you think this will be adequate for supplementation other than the Mineral and occasion Rep Cal? I have had the chameleons for less than two weeks and they already seem much more active and are eating tons of crickets. I was concerned about the abnormal shedding I guess I have to wait and see if the better nutrition of the crickets helps.

Yes, the chameleons have UVA/UVB lighting although I am sure that it needs to be changed as I do not think the previous owner knew to do so. I have some Zoo Med 5.0’s on order. Also they are provided with 75 watt spot lamps and are housed in large screen enclosures.

The 82 degrees is at the peak point in the day usually about 3:00 in the afternoon, early morning and late evening temperatures are in the low 70’s with another drop at night. I should have clarified the entire building is set up to raise the temperature through out the day and slowly drop it at night. I have a aquarium hose and garden sprayer hooked up to a pump and barrel full of reverse osmosis water that I use to drench them twice a day (as well as my clothes and shoes I am finding I need to do a lot more laundry now:p).

My concern with breeding captive chameleons to captive chameleons stems from what I have heard from Veiled Chameleon breeders as shrinkage. Smaller and weaker offspring, again please correct me if I am wrong. I agree with you that as long as you are injecting new blood every generation or so they should be no reason for this occurrence. I just wanted to be sure.

I guess I will keep my fingers crossed that the eggs are good, the gentleman that had them was not in the hobby at all I believe they came to him through an odd job that could not be compensated with cash, tried his best.

Thanks again Harry and Chameleoholic I am sure I will be picking your brains in the future.
Susan
 
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Howdy Susan,

Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post but be sure that the eggs aren't getting overeheated. There are lots of ideas about panther egg temps but I don't think anyone runs it past about 80F. 74F is probably a safe temp until you decide what temp you want to settle on :eek:.
 
Thanks Dave, I have the eggs incubating at 75 degrees. Think I should drop it a little to be safe? The incubator stays pretty steady.

Susan
 
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