Subject of Coil UVB bulbs

PardalisGirl

Avid Member
I use the normal household CFL bulbs to provide extra light in my cages that are in a dark part of a room and don't need extra heat. They are great for that. And my local electric company/provider likes to send me a dozen free ones each year. I guess they look at my monthly bill and are trying to give me a hint on ways to save on my lighting.

On the subject of the coil/compact UVB bulbs......I've partipated in a couple of threads on this lately. I've gone to the manufacturer's site to see what specs each bulb has. ZooMed does not give any information on their site about the UVB spectrum provided by their coil/compact 5.0 and 10.0 bulbs. As they were one of the manufacturers that originally had major issues with their coil/compact bulbs, I won't consider them "fixed" until I see the specifications which include the range of UVB spectra provided. Has anyone on this forum received this information from ZooMed privately? Or is it listed on the packaging itself?

It is thought that UVB wavelengths under 300 (not found in natural sunlight) is the cause of the skin burning/eye issues. The offending products produced significant amounts of wavelengths below 300. These lower wavelengths were produced by the type of material used to produce the UVB itself. Some manufacturers have claimed to have re-engineered their bulbs so that they do not use materials that produce UVB below 300. Since ZooMed does not furnish the spectrum of their UVB coil/compact bulbs I would not use them. Unless, that is, you have managed to get ZooMed to furnish that information to you personally in some form.

R-Zilla also had both linear tubes and coil/compact UVB lights that were shown to cause significant health problems with reptiles and were shown to provide significant UVB below the 300 wavelength. I have gone to their site and they do not provide any specification on wavelengths for their products. Until I see that provided, I would not use those products either. Perhaps someone has received this information privately from them. I have not.

Arcadia lighting does furnish this information on their site for their compact UVB lights. It shows that all of their compacts provide UVB within a natural range. It's a matter of picking which one is an appropriate strength (% UVB provided) for your reptile.

Exo-Terra also provides this information and the UVB spectrum their lights produce are also within a proper range. Again it is a matter of chosing the right strength of UVB. It appears that these are the products that Chris Anderson uses successfully. His cages look very clean with the Exo-Terra hoods.

Hope this helps some people. I've spent a great deal of time during the last week researching all of this for my own purposes.......
 
Last edited:
Thank you very much for the information! I haven't tried any of the CF bulbs yet as ReptiSun 5.0s work well for me. I like the ability to evenly light a larger cage with a double set of 48" tubes personally. My cages are larger than most keepers (my smallest is 48x48x60), or I free range.
 
Are you saying that exo-terra coil bulbs are ok to use? and if so what would be the right strength of uvb?
 
Depends......

Depends on cage size and species. As Chris Anderson pointed out, they have a narrow range of UVB spreading out from the bulb. It would work best for smaller cages and certain species. Chris uses the bulbs on specific applications. If you want to provide UVB for a large adult Veiled or Panther cham, they would not be very useful. What are you thinking about using it for?
 
Not really in the frame of mind to go searching for the data on the forum to back me up... but there have been several threads about the new CFLs from Zoo Med and how they have been changed and how to identify the new lamp with the safe spectrum.

Here is a Link to the UVB meter owners club post I found just a sec ago...

Here is a thread about how to identify the old and new CFL's in the store.

Here is the page on the UV Guide that talks about CFLs.... Dr. Frances Baines is still working on the new updated page..... My understanding is that she is pretty swamped right now in projects... But she is working on the page to provide a better idea of what is on the market now vs. before
 
Not much info here

http://zoomed.com/Library/ProductDBFiles/Reptiles and UVB.pdf

or here

http://www.zoomed.com/Library/ProductDBFiles/reptisun5cf.pdf

nor here does it say exactly what it outputs.

http://www.zoomed.com/Library/ProductDBFiles/reptisun10cf.pdf

Interestingly, Its CFL UVB/UVA designed for birds, Does specifically warn about eye damage. (birders must be more important eh)

http://www.zoomed.com/Library//ProductDBFiles/aviansun.pdf

Did find some info....

According to an "independent" analysis Zoo Med had done, the Reptile-D light does not in fact produce 5% UVB, it produces slightly less than the Zoo Med 5.0 light (4.84 vs 5.02). What is interesting is Zoo Med's fact sheet that states "It is Zoo Med's opinion that UVB bulbs that exceed 5% total energy output should not be sold [to] the general public (emphasis theirs)." So, on the one hand, they "prove" that their lights are better than the Reptile-D light because they produce more UVB than the Reptile-D, but at the same time theirs exceeds (true, by a very slight amount) their own safety recommendations. They also go on to say that, "just as you would not stare at the sun, never stare for any length of time directly within 12" of a UVB bulb." To date, no pet manufacturer has made goggles for lizards to protect their eyes from staring at high UV output sources...which is why UV-tubes made for the tanning industry should never be used.

ƒ Zoo Med periodically changes the names and packaging on their lights. Their "Iguana" light is identical to their "Reptile" light, other than the packaging. Some pet stores sell the Iguana or the Reptile tubes for more than the other, even though Zoo Med's wholesale price is the same for the two products. The Reptile and Iguana tubes are interchangeable and can be used for any species that needs such a product.

Observations in studies on vitamin D3 indicate that very high output (VHO) bulbs may cause a form metabolic bone disease, the very condition one is trying to avoid through the use of UVB lighting, by causing a sort of overdose of systemic D3. If you are going to use these high output bulbs, including mercury vapor products such as ActiveUV and Zoo Med's new PowerSUN, have your reptile's blood and eyes checked regularly. Remember that, in the wild, iguanas aren't in direct sunlight all day long, but thermoregulate by moving frequently into the shade. So, just because a UVB-producing fluorescent doesn't provide the same amount of UVB as the sun does at the equator or elsewhere in the iguana range, the iguanas don't need the amount that pours down on the forests and ground in the tropics. Given that they do quite well in captivity with properly positioned and annually replaced Zoo Med's reptile or iguana, and Durotest's Vita-Lite tubes, fluorescents, the fact that these products produce less than the sun at the equator is a moot point. It simply doesn't matter in terms of your being able to provide adequate UVB in captivity.

I also suggest you read Anne Marsden's new article which summarizes the research into UVB and D3

http://www.anapsid.org/uvbanne.html

http://www.anapsid.org/uvtable.html#UVB list
 
Last edited:
Not the information needed........

Thanks for the time you two put into researching the subject. It's frustrating. None of this clears up whether or not the ZooMed CFL bulbs produce UVB in the acceptable wavelengths (not below 300). The wavelengths below 300 (not found in nature) were thought to be the factor in skin burning and eye damage. Strength of UVB which ranges in various brands and products (2% to 12%) is something else entirely. Purchase of the particular strength is made bases on species (gecko living in shade or total desert living animal) and distance of the light from the reptile. I can not find any information showing what UVB wavelengths are produced from ZooMeds current CFL products. I can't find it for the R-Zilla CFLs or tube lights that also had the same wavelength problem.

Perhaps someone on this forum has developed a friendship with a ZooMed rep that does shows. If I have time this weekend I'm going to write to ZooMed and R-Zilla myself. I'd like them both to furnish me with a graph that shows the spectrum and a graph that shows the shape and distribution of the UVB at various distances. I would like to put together a thread or blog that is complete with all the brands and information that we can point people to. I will post my own blog on it if we can't find a way to make a thread a permanent lighting reference.

Too much confusion is out there about this subject. We need one place where the real data/information is stored without getting junked up with guesses or unrelated questions.
 
I believe that the exoterra and the zoo med are safe others too.

Thanks everyone on here that are contributing to this info =]
 
I believe that the exoterra and the zoo med are safe others too.

Thanks everyone on here that are contributing to this info =]

My first post in this thread gives the link to the Exo-Terra website that shows the UVB spectrum which is in a safe range. Have you found the same thing for ZooMed CFL bulbs? If not, than I don't think you can declare them safe. They were on a specific list of products (just the CFL/spiral ZooMed lights not the linear tubes) shown to produce UVB in a dangerous range and with documented cases of skin burns and eye damage. I don't think anyone can declare them "safe" until they show us the specifications in chart/graph form that prove this. The problem with this brand of CFL was very serious. I'm not going to recommend it or tell people it is safe without proof.

This thread seems to have changed from. I originally posted an answer to an existing thread. Now the original posts are gone and my response is now the first post. Did someone move the rest for some reason? Just curious. It now looks like I started this thread out of the blue which I did not.....
 
UVB is between 315 and 280 We want the 290-300 bit... The peak production is at 297. I am not really sure the point of the hub bub. Have you read the posts about the newer lamps? There are many out there and like I said people are working on getting the info out there...
 
Last edited:
We are not talking about the same thing!

UVB is between 315 and 280 We want the 290-300 bit... The peak production is at 297. I am not really sure the point of the hub bub. Have you read the posts about the newer lamps? There are many out there and like I said people are working on getting the info out there...

I'm not sure if we are speaking the same language. I am not talking about output from distances. I am talking about output of wavelengths below 300 nm. There should be very little output below 300 nm with a steady climb into the mid 300 nm range. Natural sun has an output from 300 nm up to 400 nm. The UVB below 300 is more photo-active and causes skin and DNA damage. The more output below 300 nm the more damage. You can have two bulbs that have equal total UVB output. One bulb can have all of it's output in the 320 to 355 nm range and be perfectly safe. The other bulb can have most of it's output in the 280 to 300 nm range and cause skin burning and eye damage. This relationship is quantified in a term called UV Index. The higher the index the more damaging the bulb is. Real sun has a UV Index of 2.0 when the total output of UVB (as registered on your solar meter) is 100. A Reptisun 5.0 tube has/had a UV index of 2.3 at a distance when the total UVB output on a meter is 100. The Reptisun compact 5.0 has/had a UV index of 8.9 at a distance when the UVB output on a meter is 100. The 10.0 compact has/had an index of 10.0 when the total output on a meter is 100. The UK UV lighting website that provided all of this information has not updated it with new indexes. Until I get confirmation of the UVB output in ranges below 300 nm by that site or by ZooMed itself, I will not tell anyone it is safe. Below is the link with the information I am referring too:

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-tests.htm#totalUVB

Arcadia Lighting and ExoTerra provide graphs on their website showing the output for the wavelengths. Their graphs show that their compact lighting products are consistent with natural sun and have very little output in the damaging lower spectrum.
 
Last edited:
I haven't looked into this recently but from what I recall Zoomed initially tackled the problem by changing the instructions on the package when it comes to distance between the bulb and the animal. I am not sure about exo-terra but if I recall it correctly Zilla was the one company that didn't respond to questions from the team that was working on this issue. I can't say if Zilla has since then corrected or commented on the issue.

I personally, eventhough I am using the Reptisun 5.0 linear bulb, am very nervous that my chameleon can get very close to the bulb. The UVB reading on my meter with the screen between the bulb and the meter is not too high but still it is a cause of concern to me. As soon as possible I plan on switching to an external ballasted Megaray bulb.

Michael
 
Clarificiation........

I edited my last post after reading the Frances Baine link to put her information in context. Everything in her information supports what I am saying. Exo-Terra and Arcadia provide information on their site which indicates their products are safe. ZooMed and R-Zilla says things have been changed but I'm not seeing any official published information with output from the wavelengths below 300 nm to show me they are safe. It looks like R-Zilla is actually avoided the issue to the point of not responding to questions.

Also consider that this woman is talking about bearded dragons. At a UV Index of 2 fair skinned people can start to burn. At an Index of 3 to 5 moderate skin damage can occur in most people. From an Index of 5 on up people get varying degrees of skin damage. They may feel good about the tan they are getting......But at these upper ranges (full desert sun, etc.) they are causing permanent damage to their skin and increasing the risk of cancer. Bearded Dragons live in the very conditions that don't work well for humans unless you are ethnically evolved to live in those conditions. You need to put this woman's information (very good information) into context. Your Panther cham is not going to do well at those upper UV indexes!
 
Last edited:
here was another recent thread that also had som e useful information on the subject https://www.chameleonforums.com/updated-info-cf-uvb-lamps-29318/

Dave Weldon provides a link to a Frances Baine post which I read all the way. Still the same information. Exo-Terra and Arcadia is fine. No updated information on ZooMed or R-Zilla to show concrete proof of changes in output. I also noted that when she was testing the Ex-Terra compact bulbs her total output to get her index readings is less than 15 instead of the 100 total UVB output that was used in the original UK Lighting report to get the indexes for comparison. This confirms that while the Exo-Terra bulbs are safe, their output is rather low and confined to a small area. They are not suitable for large cages. That is the problem with the CFL bulbs in general.
 
As soon as possible I plan on switching to an external ballasted Megaray bulb.

Michael

I use the 100 watt-LOW MegaRay self-ballasted bulbs for my Melleri free range. I am very happy with them. They are only suitable for large applications though. They put out a lot of heat for 100 watts. I've got them spaced at a distance from the group of chams. That species gets enough UVB from them (I measured with a meter) with the lights far enough not to overheat them. If you want to use one you have to use a meter and temperature gun and realize you will not have it in a dome fixture sitting on your cage. I have them in dome fixtures on top of my huge iguana cages. Iguanas love to bake in that heat. I have one positioned on a wall well above my Blue Crown Conure's cage too. He loves to bask under it after his daily shower.

People who already use the MegaRays should look at this link below. There were apparantly some problems with some of their bulbs. I did not purchase problem bulbs and am very happy with them for the purposes I use them for. It's good to be aware of this issue if you have already bought MegaRays. The owner of the company that sells them addresses the issue on their homepage as follows:

http://www.reptileuv.com/
 
I can not find any information showing what UVB wavelengths are produced from ZooMeds current CFL products

I understand Exactly what you were looking for, but I couldn't find it either. Did quite a bit of searching and no specs posted anywhere, Zoomed seems tightlipped about it. Perhaps you could email Zoomed and ask specifically.?
:)
 
I don't think you have read the UV guide website very closely. I am not talking about amount of UVB. I am talking about the wavelength. If you read the site it talks about the peak processing of calcium to be found at 297nm. That is below the 300nm level you have marked as 'bad'. It goes on to say that calcium is processed in the range of UVB from 290-315nm. Getting lower than 290 is the danger end of the UVB spectrum. I don't think you understand how all of it works so I don't understand why you are looking for this data and making a bunch of claims about how they aren't safe until you see a chart. If you don't understand the data on a chart why try to read it?

I know i sound like I am coming off harsh but I don't feel you have done any foot work on the subject. there is lots of info out there on the UVB meter owners group forum, on this forum and even Dr. Baines site. no, there isn't some graph to look at that has been made public, but please dont' worry, it isn't a conspiracy theory. Dr. Baines does the UV Guide site as a charity to the community and is by no means held to any standard of producing materials about products, she tests at no charge to anyone.

If you need this chart to prove to you that the lights are better, Call Zoo Med. Ask to speak to someone about the lamps. You don't need to be 'friends' with any sales rep to get an engineer on the phone. It is a small company, run by people who keep reptiles, just like us. I have had many phone calls with them about products and had great success in just calling the source rather than a head hunt.

The product is safe, a spectrograph won't change that.
 
Back
Top Bottom