Sil worms vs Phoenix worms

kevinviger

New Member
I have a Veiled Chameleon that is around 6 months right now. I know calcium is important and I dust the crickets that I provide him with "Rep-Cal's phospherous-free calcium with vitamin D" I also feed him dubia roaches and when I can find them, silkworms. I have been told that silk worms are a great source of calcium but have been reading alot on how phoenix worms are great too. My question for al members is this. Are phoenix worms better than silk worms? Also I saw a nutritional chart that shows the phoenix worms are high in phospherous...yet the dusting powder is phospherous free...whats the deal? :confused:
 

AESara

Member
When I first tried to give my cham phoenix worms, he seemed to be scared of them or dislike the taste. He only ate one and after that he would just hiss at any I offered him. He's bigger now, and I haven't tried since then. They're pretty cheap so it would not hurt to try if you're curious. Just make sure you poke a hole in the worms with a pin or something, because otherwise they can go through undigested.

I've seen discrepancies between those charts on here before... and unless I'm mistaken the ratio of calcium to phosphorus is the important part.
 

Echoezra

Established Member
It's generally recommended to dust with a calcium with no D3 regularly, and only use one with D3 couple times a month. If your lighting is right.
As for the calcium to phospherous ratio, yeah you're wanting high calcium foods, because most of the bugs have more phospherous than calcium, and j believe we're after a healthy ratio of about 2 to 1 calcium to phospherous. That's why you want to gutload your crickets and supers and stuff with high calcium vegetables, and ones without oxalates and goitrogens if they're listed on the charts because that can interfere with calcium absorbtion I think.
If you're trying to decide between two different worms, actually don't decide - get both! Lol. Variety is the best thing for them. :)
but they're both supposed to be really good and can be used regularly from what I've read, although that poke a hole thing is a new one, haven't seen that mentioned before.
So I would try to include both in their diet if I were you. And make sure you're gutloading the crickets well with high calcium veggies, and I think you while probably get a new calcium for regular use, because D can build up and then I think it actually backfires and interferes with the calcium absorption. I am a newb, but I've been reading this forum a LoT lately, and these are the usual recommendations.
 

DeviousMike

New Member
The problem with phoenix/repti worms is that they are maggots and some chams are very finicky and don't like the taste of things that eat poop. At least that's my theory as to why my chams did not like them. On the other hand, they go gaga for hornworms and I'm about to try silkworms, so I'm hoping for the same response.
 

kevinviger

New Member
I feed dubia roaches as the staple of his diet. I do crickets once a week and just do a dozen(is it ok to dust them if it's once a week? or maybe every other cricket feeding?)...It is fun to watch him go nuts when he sees all the crickets in there. I am currently rotating the silk worms with the dubias when I can find them and possibly the phoenix worms if he likes them. With that being said...any other suppliments you would recommend?...Oh and I have found that he likes the mustard greens..what other greens should I try?
 

dodolah

Retired Moderator
Just for your information, phoenix worm (at least the one you get from the store) should not be fed poop or trash by the provider. Naturally, they eat some vegetables matter. Phoenix worm is quite different than house fly maggots. As far as nutrition, phoenix worm seems to have a somewhat "better" ratio than silkies. BUT, the fact is Phoenix worm can pass through your chameleon system without being properly digested. Also, some chameleons are finicky about size. I know my adult panthers won't eat anything smaller than crickets. So, he usually ignores those phoenix worms.

With that said, I am more in favor of silkworms than Phoenix worms.
But, it doesn't mean that you cannot feed your cham with phoenix worms. Provided that your cham will eat them, I say go ahead and buy both.
The more variety of insects you give to your chameleon, the better his health and the happier your chameleon will be. :)

I let everyone else answered about the supplements, but as far as greens goes:
Kale, collard greens, Hibiscus leaves and flowers, and Dandelion leaves and the flowers (available sometimes at your local albertson or your Local Korean Market) are all great choice. I put dandelion in bold because Dandelion is arguably one of the healthiest vegetable you can give him (you can actually eat it too, if you want. It is very good for you also)

Avoid tomato and potato leaves (poisonous), broccoli, rhubarb, and spinach (they contain oxalates that can block calcium absorption)

Make sure you washed those vegetables very thorough to remove traces of fertilizers and pesticides.
 
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Amanda1801

New Member
Our veiled loves the silkworms...but for something that rich in calcium I am willing to try it out.
Have you tried butterworms? They have a pretty high level of calcium and are quite bright orange and wriggly - can't get my guy to eat them though grrr
 

Echoezra

Established Member
If you read around on the forum most people wil say to use the supplement you already have only about twice a month. Get the calcium with no vit d for your usual dusting. Then herptivite multivitamin for once or twice a month.
 
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