Questions on werners health!

marianoh44

New Member
Me and my friend recently bought 2 chameleons to make them breed. The guy from the petshop said they were the same species but after a while of looking through the internet im pretty sure one its a fuelleborni(male) and mine is a werneri(female). I need confirmation on this please.


*Trying to provide the best habitat and needs that i can, they have a 90x67x35cm cage with metallic mesh from the back and front only.

Right of the start she did not seem as healthy as she can be, grip is sort of weak, especially in the front legs. The fuelleborni has a particularly strong grip compared to the female werner. Today i saw her sleeping while hanging on with 3 legs only... no damage is visible to any of her legs.
Which leads me into my next question she seems a bit too inactive, she does not move around much in the cage even though i have seen her at different places occasionally, (often she will head towards the top right corner of the mesh where the sun comes in from the window). Even when I take her out to be fed and watered she will sometimes close one, or both her eyes as if asleep....is this a sign of weakness...or just relaxed?Maybe more airflow is needed... can a fan help?
Coloration is often mild-dark brown(i will post some pics), even while sleeping. The branches are almost the same color that she turns..can this be a factor? Not always she is this color. does it mean she is stressed, trying to blend? or about the color that she normally is?
Eating habits are somewhat improving. For the first two days she did not eat food at all, although she accepts water on a leaf while i misted it(she loves to drink, and lots). So far shes eating a bit more about 2 crickets a day, but i have to insist a lot and sometimes i try twice a day for her to eat them (i ussually hold the crickets in my hand to feed her). Is this enough for her? The male fuelleborni eats 3 and sometimes 4 a day, and other days about two, but overall he seems healthy and active.
Maybe she eats less due to being inactive?
Whats better to have a bowl for dripper? or let it fall on the dirt from the plants (as i have right now?)
How can i tell if she is ready to breed? (fattening? she seems a bit fat?)
And my final question is can the fuelleborni male breed with my werneri female? oh one more... keeping both chams in one cage, is this stressing for them? the male sometimes hisses at her but only when their outside of the cage (when i mist them and feed..etc) never i have seen them agressive toward each other inside the cage.

Other info- Plants in cage: Pothos, emerald plant (real tiny), & 3 others i cant remmember the name right now (2 are chameleon recommended, not sure about the biggest plant which is a small tree, nonetheless they have not bitten any of the plants) Cage consists of wood all around, and metal mesh on 2 sides. A bottle dripper is used for water and misting 3x a day about. 26w uv light(on during the day only), and 75w nightlight(on always). Pieces of woods and bark etc are on the floor (which are being removed as i type this for fear of bacteria building up.)

*note these chameleons were brought to my house 1 week ago, so this might also be part of her stress.

Anything else i should be concerned about?


If possible add me in your instant messanger- [email protected]

Thanks and please post any help, or questions you might have as well.

*I also have posted this here--> http://chamaeleonidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1073

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A day after this post the chameleon has regurgitated a cricket that i fed (yesterday) and did not eat any. Im about to try again right now.
 

Tygerr

Avid Member
Unfortunately I can't help you with the species identification, since I have no experience with these species.

But a few comments and questions regarding what you posted about her health...

keeping both chams in one cage, is this stressing for them? the male sometimes hisses at her but only when their outside of the cage (when i mist them and feed..etc) never i have seen them agressive toward each other inside the cage.
For most species, it is extremely stressful to keep them together. If you have both the male and the female in the same cage, then this would surely explain her behaviour and her stress. She is probably not eating because the more active, larger and more aggressive male is dominating the territory and forcing her to subdue. Over time, this will ultimately lead to her death. You should separate them immediately.
They should also not be put together outside the cage. Like you have witnessed, the mere sight of another cham is enough to get them riled up.
I don't understand why you are taking them out of the cage to mist and feed...
Even when I take her out to be fed and watered she will sometimes close one, or both her eyes as if asleep....is this a sign of weakness...or just relaxed?
Closing eyes, especially in young chams, is a sign of stress. Why do you take her out to be fed and watered? Any handling is sure to increase stress levels in the cham. You should be feeding and watering her INSIDE the cage, without having to handle her.


Me and my friend recently bought 2 chameleons to make them breed. The guy from the petshop said they were the same species but after a while of looking through the internet im pretty sure one its a fuelleborni(male) and mine is a werneri(female). I need confirmation on this please.
Do you know if they were Wild Caught (WC) or Captive Bred (CB)?
Right of the start she did not seem as healthy as she can be, grip is sort of weak, especially in the front legs.
Weak grip is one of the symptoms of MBD. How long have you had her now, and under what sort of conditions did they keep her at the pet shop?

Do you have a vet you could take her to to be checked out?

75w nightlight(on always).
What do you mean by nightlight? If it is one of those infrared bulbs, get rid of it - they are not for chameleons. Chams need a normal, visible light (usually an incandescent spot bulb) to bask under, and it should only be on DURING THE DAY. In the nighttime, chameleons need complete darkness to sleep, and they also need the temps to cool down a bit.
Which leads me into my next question she seems a bit too inactive, she does not move around much in the cage even though i have seen her at different places occasionally, (often she will head towards the top right corner of the mesh where the sun comes in from the window).
Chameleons (like many other lizards) bask to warm up their bodies. Because they recognise visible light like the sun as sources of heat, and it sounds like you don't have a basking bulb (only the 'nightlight'), it could be that she heads to the sunny spot in her cage to bask at.
Maybe more airflow is needed... can a fan help?
If you have mesh at the back and front of the cage, I doubt whether a fan is needed. What is the humidity in the cage?
Coloration is often mild-dark brown(i will post some pics), even while sleeping. The branches are almost the same color that she turns..can this be a factor? Not always she is this color. does it mean she is stressed, trying to blend? or about the color that she normally is?
They don't change colour to blend into their surroundings. However, their natural colours often mimic their surroundings. As I said, I'm not familiar with this species, but in general, darker colours either mean she is trying to absorb more heat (i.e. she is cold), or darker colours mean she is stressed/unhappy.
So far shes eating a bit more about 2 crickets a day, but i have to insist a lot and sometimes i try twice a day for her to eat them (i ussually hold the crickets in my hand to feed her).
I'm not sure what you mean by insisting that she eats (I've insisted to my chams that they should clean up their cages a bit, but like most adolescents, they've ignored me).
If you're trying to force feed her, it could be stressing her out. Try to give her some space and alone time to eat. You could even feed her out of a feeder bowl to be able to monitor how much she is eating. But handling her and hand feeding her is only going to make her feel uncomfortable. New chameleons should be given a period of time to settle into their surroundings, during which time you interact with them as little as possible.
Maybe she eats less due to being inactive?
It is very likely that she is eating less because she is inactive, but the real question you should be asking (and the one that is more worrying), is why is she being inactive?
Whats better to have a bowl for dripper? or let it fall on the dirt from the plants (as i have right now?)
Falling onto the potting soil in the plant pots is ok. Water bowls are just breeding grounds for bacteria, and places for feeder insects to drown. How is the water draining out of the cage?
How can i tell if she is ready to breed? (fattening? she seems a bit fat?)
Easy, she is not ready to breed while she is being inactive and not seeming healthy. Only healthy, strong females should be allowed to breed, since the physicaly stress of producing babies is sure to take a huge toll on an unhealthy cham.
Pieces of woods and bark etc are on the floor (which are being removed as i type this for fear of bacteria building up.)
Your fears are probably correct: most keepers don't use any substrate on the floors of their cages, since chameleons spend all their time in the trees, and don't need a substrate to roam on.
 
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