Pseudomonas Questions

[rmhuey]

My Cham got a mouth infection three months ago. I took her to the vet who did a culture and sensitivity. Results: Pseudomonas. After four weeks of Baytril injections every other day, he did another C&S. Results: Pseudomonas. The infection had cleared at this point but the culture still shows Pseudomonas. So, six more weeks of every other day injections of Baytril. Third culture still shows a heavy growth of Pseudomonas. So, my vet has referred me to the University of Tennessee Veterinary Teaching Hospital an hour away. I have an appointment next Tuesday, but I have some questions for the forum.

1. I looked up Pseudomonas on this forum and most of the references were that it is difficult to get rid of. What does that mean specifically? Does it take multiple drug trials? Does it take a long time?
2. Has anyone has a positive outsome on the treatment of Pseudomonas in their cham?
3. What kind of treatment period am I looking at: three weeks, six months or one year? I know this varies, but I am trying to get a general idea.
4. No offense to my vet, but I do not think he is the greatest, so I want to know if anyone sees an issue with our treatment progression so far.

I am committed to doing what needs to be done, but I do not want to stress/hurt my Callie anymore than absolutely necessary, which is why I am concerned that we were referred to a Teaching Hospital. Sorry for my blabbering, I just want more information so I can be prepared for our upcoming appointment.

Thanks!

 

[kinyonga]

Pseudamonas is difficult to get rid of. Some antibiotics work better than others. Did the vet clean out the infected area? Did he/she do a culture and sensativity test?

Mouth rot can often take more than one treatment to get rid of but it can be done.

 

[rmhuey]

Yes, the vet did three culture and sensitivity tests over our treatment period. The last test was Friday and the results came in on Monday.

I am interested in learning a general treatment duration (i.e. weeks, months).

The vet did clean the infected area and it is being kept clean. The infection is gone but the bacteria remains waiting to cause another infection.

 

[kinyonga]

As you said, until the bacteria is killed it could come back and cause more problems.

I can't give you a time frame. I can tell you that Pseudamonas is a common bacteria found in the environment and that its an opportunist.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Rebecca,

Here ya go… straight out of Mader’s book:

“Pseudomonas spp., especially P. aeruginosa, are commonly found as part of the normal flora in the oral cavity and intestinal tracts of reptiles. As such, they are often considered opportunistic pathogens. Poor husbandry, including suboptimal environmental temperature and malnutrition, can predispose reptiles to Pseudomonas infections. Pseudomonas spp. are frequently isolated from lesions associated with ulcerative stomatitis, pneumonia, dermatitis, and septicemia. Healthy reptiles from which Pseudomonas spp. are cultured in light numbers from the oral cavity or gastrointestinal tract probably need not be treated. However, a pure culture of Pseudomonas spp. from a lung wash is considered significant, and treatment is warranted."

What I get out of that is that just because you find Pseudomonas doesn't mean its a problem and if there is a real problem with it, it may be the environment that is helping things stay unhealthy.

 

[Garrett]

You beat me to it Dave That Mader book is great!
I've had oral cultures done on healthy chameleons, or chameleons with other problems (like an eye infection) come back positive for guess what?.. psuedomonas. I've actually killed an animal with baytril trying to get rid of it, only to find out it's a pretty common oral flora for chameleons.
She had some stomatisis I was able to clear up with betadine, but the vet said psuedomonas.. so we pumped her full of baytril that eventually did her in.
If you're not seeing the symptoms of an infection anymore, and you're animal is asymptomatic, I would probably stop the meds because you're never going to completely get rid of them, very hard to kill.
I have a perfectly healthy chameleon sitting here with a mouth full of psuedomonas as I type this I think he was cultured about 2 years ago.
I read a paper somewhere about someone culturing a swab from a healthy komodo dragon, and it came back with... psuedomonas

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Garrett,

I think you're right about trying to kill-off all traces of Pseudomonas. If the chameleon is otherwise healthy, some level of Pseudomonas may always be present anyway. It has also been mentioned that finding certain types of microbial activity in the mouth is one thing while finding that same microbial activity in the lungs is a completely different situation. Exterienced reptile vets may do a lung wash to show-up what is down in there where the disease is active.

It's all of those husbandry/environmental questions in https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ that often end-up uncovering suboptimal conditions, any of which, by itself or the right combination of those conditions lead to disease and death. After eliminating all of the less-than-desirable husbandry issues then one can concentrate on the problem at hand. The tough ones to convince otherwise are the "lucky" keepers who had their first chameleon for 6-12 months without noticing anything going wrong and then having its health take a dive. The first thing that might be going through that keeper's head is that there can't be anything that I'm doing wrong with husbandry because the chameleon did so well for those many months leading up to this health crisis . ...an ounce of prevention...

 

[rmhuey]

Thanks for the information. I am very careful with her environment. I missed a spot on her lip where I believe she was bit on her lip by a cricket and then the infection set in.

I will see what the specialist has to say tomorrow.

Thanks again.