partial cricket skeletons in stool

ollygatorsnapper

New Member
hello everyone, i have the question of what does it mean when u see cricket parts in stool. its like he isnt digesting all of his food. am i in trouble?
 

Elizadolots

New Member
What time of day are you feeding him? It's possible he doesn't have enough time to properly digest. They need to be hanging out under the heat lamp for a while after eating. I'd allow at least 4 hours.
 

ollygatorsnapper

New Member
i feed him around noon to early evening hours. his basking temp is 78 to 80 degrees which is about right for a panther. he acts fine no change in behavior
 
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jcal

Member
im no expert but here's my advise:

raise your temps to around 85 -90. some people think thats too high but thats what my breeder recommends

feed as early as possible. they need heat to digest and it sounds like he doesnt have enough time and heat to get the job done.
 

ollygatorsnapper

New Member
ok that makes sense because i generally feed him as early as i can, but lately i think i've been pushing the feeding time later than usual due to all my doctors visits and errands. i'm gonna try feeding him earlier first and if that dont work raise the temp
 

jojackson

New Member
Fail

What time of day are you feeding him? It's possible he doesn't have enough time to properly digest. They need to be hanging out under the heat lamp for a while after eating. I'd allow at least 4 hours.
eed as early as possible. they need heat to digest and it sounds like he doesnt have enough time and heat to get the job done.
Yes early morning feeding makes sense, since this is when most lizards bask and go looking for food, but its nothing to do with undigested food,
OP needs to raise that temperature to 90f atleast and ensure its basking and adequate hydration.


Lizards dont fail to digest food because they ate before the sun went down,
or lights as the case may be. Provided they can bask the following day/s
they will digest it. Neither do they pass the food undigested so quickly.

Lizards require a certain metabolic rate both to digest and pass waste, BUT,
these functions dont cease because the weather cools, they continue, albeit at slower rate. Provided it can bask at adequate temps the next day its fine.
Prolonged cold after food would be a different story.

Suggestions that food will rot in a lizards stomach because it ate too late in the day, are ill considered nonsense,
likewise that it will pass undigested food the following day. Its not a conveyor belt, if its too cool to digest food, its too cool to eat any further food too, and too cool to poo.

People need to THINK, not just regurgitate what they read and totally failed to understand. (or never actually thought about in the first place.)

There is a perfect example of the failure of this forum, due allowing well meaning, but clueless and unthinking people to
post nonsense..
This nonsense now has directly caused the OP confusion and the wrong course of action. If you have no idea, please DONT 'HELP' :(

ok that makes sense because i generally feed him as early as i can, but lately i think i've been pushing the feeding time later than usual due to all my doctors visits and errands. i'm gonna try feeding him earlier first and if that dont work raise the temp
It makes no bloody sense Olly, raise that basking temperature, and recheck the cages ambient temperatures throughout the gradient. Feed during the day whenever it suits you, lizards eat whenever food is avail. If you cant feed before late afternoon, leave food in the cage all the time, just not too many and provide the crickets (or whatever), a food source.
 
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Cainschams

New Member
Yes early morning feeding makes sense, since this is when most lizards bask and go looking for food, but its nothing to do with undigested food,
OP needs to raise that temperature to 90f atleast and ensure its basking and adequate hydration.

Lizards dont fail to digest food because they ate before the sun went down,
or lights as the case may be. Provided they can bask the following day/s
they will digest it. Neither do they pass the food undigested so quickly.

Lizards require a certain metabolic rate both to digest and pass waste, BUT,
these functions dont cease because the weather cools, they continue, albeit at slower rate. Provided it can bask at adequate temps the next day its fine.
Prolonged cold after food would be a different story.

Suggestions that food will rot in a lizards stomach because it ate too late in the day, are ill considered nonsense, likewise that it will pass undigested food
the following day.

People need to THINK, not just regurgitate what they read and totally failed to understand. (or never actually thought about in the first place.)

There is a perfect example of the failure of this forum, due allowing well meaning, but clueless and unthinking people to
post nonsense..
This nonsense now has directly caused the OP confusion and the wrong course of action. If you have no idea, please DONT 'HELP' :(

Couldnt agree more. He needs a higher basking temp.
 

jpm995

Member
If you relate to a natural enviornment, most lizards need several hours of warmth to give them the energy to start hunting, so i doubt they feed too early. The trouble with a lot of 'theories' we cling to is their based on limited experience and not scientific evidence. Many of the animals we keep are from very harsh enviornments but does that they require that to thrive. People live in Alaska but would they die if transported to San Diego? That said MOST of the time you can't go wrong with with the great advice on here. I'm pretty sure many of our chams are alive now thanks to advice of our forum members.
 

ataraxia

Avid Member
1) are you sure you are looking at poo, not puke? (pic would help)
2) raise your temps as suggested

now these next statement i have not seen in a chameleon and are based on bearded dragons. logically i would think the same would happen to a chameleon.

3) did he eat a abnormal amount? if so, he probably engorged himself... the body used what it needed and didnt digest what isnt truely something to be digested anyways (if its legs and wings).
 

Ace

Avid Member
glad i avoided the hazing :)
haha i like reading JJ's post's, informative and sometimes i get humor out of them 2!!
JJ is like many experienced keepers, tired of hearing the "regurgitated" info thaat sometimes are incorrect or misunderstood.

but he means well, and is not a mean person at heart, though he might of lost his cool a lil bit, but dont we all?

he brings humor, which i consider a valuable asset in the forums, people need to loosten up:p
 

jojackson

New Member
Sorry Guys, stress extreme taking its horrible toll (at home), my apologies, wasnt meant to sound 'angry', more 'sad'.

Here is a snippet from another site, A thread I began about this issue. I wrote:

Go a little Further

A common problem I see here, with what I call 'computer apathy', Is that useful information is posted sparingly by those who could 'go a little further', and generalisations posted by those without the knowledge to.

A simplified Example.

Person A: My female veiled has been diagnosed with an RI, she holds her mouth open, bubbles from nose , wheezy sounds etc etc. She is being treated
with such & Such but what can I do to help her?

Person B: Raise the basking temp by 5-10f

Now person C comes along, reads person A's 'how to ask for help' info, sees basking temp at 82f, reads person B's response and writes...

Person C: 90f is too high for a female veiled, they need 80f or the have huge clutches and die, etc etc

Person C is well meaning and wants to help, but dosent understand why person B has written that. Person C is simply posting the most appropriate seeming generalisation.
Neither B or C are wrong, there is simply a communication issue. Person A is now thouroughly confused and may be put of by the apparent self contradictory answers.

Person B might have 'gone a little further' by writing..

Person B: While your chameleon is ill, raising the basking temp (temporarily for the duration of treatment) by 5-10f will boost her metabolism and help speed her recovery. After your chameleon has recovered, you may return to your original basking temp, which is correct because....

Now person A has a better understanding, has learnt something. Perhaps Person C will also learn a little something more. I am also guilty of giving short answers like Person B from time to time, I did so recently, and despite an effort to 'go a little further', my responses were marred by irritation after the original miscommunication, in effect, That Person A became thourally disenchanted and went off to seek info elsewhere, not a result im proud of.
My apology to that person.

Some person C's dont realise that the 'appropriate' generalisation they make, may not be applicable in certain circumstances and thus, will seem to directly contradict what another has written. It is hoped that They also will benefit by gaining a little extra insight.
Some person B's also fall victim to 'computer apathy'. They tend to post multiple links, which, while they may be bristling with useful information, may tend to 'overload' a person new to whole thing. Not many folk actually want to read 7 links, let alone fully. Also the authors of these links will have written the work aimed at the mass public, and therefor person A may not understand how it relates directly to their issue.
Perhaps A summary with such links, In your own words explaining the relavence to Person A's problem may be of more help?

Somebody then said 'but newbys dont search, you see the same questions over and over'...

I wrote:

Excellent point. This comes back to 'computer apathy' that applies equally to person A's.
In the age of information, everything is expected instantly at our fingertips, even a few minutes is too slow, it seems these days.
There just arnt many 'person A's' willing to search through hundreds of threads, much of which might be confusing and apparently selfcontradictory answers, and work out what makes sense and what doesent, especially without having a reasonble knowledge themselves.
Many person A's are completely new to reptiles let alone chameleons, so how do tell whats meaningful among tons of cyber garbage?
Rather they log in, post and log off. At some point they log in again, go to their thread and expect an answer they can understand immeadiately.
While I agree in princple with searching, In reality it just isnt often so helpful, certainly not as helpful as hearing from somebody who makes an effort to have you not simpley
accept what is written, but rather understand it and learn something.
Just a few thoughts I wanted to share.
Best wishes :)
 

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
Panthers do not require 90F to digest their food. Not that 90F would hurt a male panther so long as it can get to lower temps as needed.

I think it possible that you are just feeding too much at once
 

fluxlizard

Avid Member
OK, so I'm with Joe Jackson on this one- I never worry about what time of day I feed my lizards, only that they get fed.

I'm also with him on temps, if for no other reason than the heat can help get bacteria in the gut active and body functioning normally. It can't hurt and may very well help.

I disagree about the following comment- lizards taking several hours to heat up in wild conditions and begin hunting, and and halfway disagree about feeding too much is the problem in this case.

Several hours to heat up before eating in the wild- not usually. Lizards are very efficient and outdoors in real sunshine can heat up pretty fast regardless of ambient temperatures. Indoors with lightbulbs things work a little differently.

I keep all my lizards outdoors during the summer- I can go outside as soon as it is light enough for them to see well and my chameleons will eat. I can feed my bearded dragons as soon as the sunshine hits them on sunny days and they will eagerly eat, on cloudy days they will eat about the same time as they would on sunny days, but the sun isn't there to warm them directly, so I'm not sure if that's just the time of day that enough light is available or if it is a habit thing or what. Most of my lizards like chameleons and bearded dragons will even feed when temps are in the low 70s and even in the 60s, provided they will have sunshine that day or provided there hasn't been several days of cloudy and 60s- and even then, the dragons tend to get lethargic, but chams still feed.

Sunshine is just different than lightbulbs- I've seen my bearded dragons breeding on days when the temps were in the 60s outside! Indoors they would be sleeping.

I disagree with the idea that feeding too much at once would cause this problem if the chameleon has been eating regularly all along. If the chameleon hasn't eaten in several days and then eats a lot, I actually agree that too much after fasting for a while can occasionally cause a lot of undigested exoskeleton to appear in the fecal material- maybe it takes a few meals to get the digestive system to kick in after a fast. But if the chameleon has been fed regularly, feasting is unlikely to do this.
 

Elizadolots

New Member
From Chris Anderson's online e-zine:

http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulCainQA.html

Cain, J. (2010). Questions and Answers.*Chameleons! Online E-Zine, July 2010.*

Chameleons are cold blooded animals that use the sun to warm themselves to proper body temperatures. Being able to warm themselves to proper temperatures aids in digestion. If it can not reach optimum body temperatures it will not be able to utilize all the nutrients from properly gut loaded and dusted insects.
I'm actually pretty good with that as a resource.

Digestion and absorbing vitamin D seem to be the big reasons for basking and if they eat the food too late to bask, it might be an issue.

It might not. I don't worry about when the bugs get eaten, I just toss them in and monitor the poop.

However, if an animal is failing to digest, then it's reasonable to suggest offering the food early enough in the day to allow for some good basking time.
 

fluxlizard

Avid Member
IMO if they cool down at night and heat up in the day everything slows down and speeds up accordingly.

In other words- if there is ample basking temp during the day, that's when the nutrients are mostly absorbed regardless of whether it is absorbing the nutrients taken in the night before or that morning. Nothing in that tidbit quoted contradicts this and I am in complete agreement with it.

However, if an animal is failing to digest, then it's reasonable to suggest offering the food early enough in the day to allow for some good basking time.
I agree it certainly won't hurt.

On the other hand I have fed 100s of lizards late in the day many times over many years and have never seen this problem as a result. Hence my strong opinion on this one.

For that matter in spring and especially fall when temps are apt to be very cool outdoors for a few weeks at a time I have never seen this problem as a result even though my chams continue to feed during this time (often the last 3 weeks of being outdoors before I bring things in for the winter I have night temps in low 50s and day temps in 60s and low 70s). So experience over years again strengthens my opinion on this one.

I have seen it occasionally after a lizard has been fasting.

I don't think droppings that look like that 1x here and there would worry me much.

On the other hand a few droppings in a row that look like this would make me think something is wrong with the lizard or routine husbandry is wrong like consistently cold basking temps.

But like I said, that is just my experience and opinion.

I admit that feeding earlier in the day is not going to hurt anything and would certainly encourage the OP to give it a shot.

I am just not optimistic that it will solve the problem if this problem is a recurring thing rather than a one time incident.
 

Elizadolots

New Member
Not arguing. This is a case of an animal seemingly not digesting its food.

In that case, I think it's appropriate to suggest offering the food in time for significant basking.

Not all animals process things exactly the same. If they did, there would not be things like diabetes.

When any animal is straying off the norm, it's reasonable to suggest the most conservative approach.
 
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