non-breading female laying eggs?

emersonc

New Member
I got a stupid question for ya all, i heard the other day that a female chameleon will lay eggs even if she has not matted with a male. Is this true? I hope not that would be a lot of work, but if it is true then i dont her to get into any problems with my one year old female nosy be panther chameleon. Please help me with this anyone...
 

Frank Castle

New Member
TRUE. Females can develop eggs even when not mated. You should supply a laying site for her in the event she does have eggs, and wants to lay. The problems come in when they dont have a place to lay and they retain the eggs. The other thing you want to watch out for is Feeding. If you over feed her, she may develop more eggs than she can handle, which may lead to egg binding. Hope this helps

Frank
 

emersonc

New Member
how will i know when she is ready to lay eggs, is it a visual type of thing?

I feed her about three "food items a day" most of the time it is crickets sometimes superworms of cranefly, or other things. is three crickets a day too much?
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Its visual in a way...if you provide her with a place to dig in her cage, you will know when she is ready because you will see her digging. The container that you provide in her cage when empty, need only be a couple of inches bigger on all sides than she can fit into. Fill the container about 2/3rds full of moist washed sand box sand. Usually people have a 65 litre tupperware container or trashcan set up properly in case she's not happy with that container. The female would be moved to it once she started to dig in the small container.

Its recommended not to let her see you watching her when she's digging (even when the eggs are infertile/she's not been mated) because she will abandon the hole. If she abandons it often enough, she will likely become eggbound and die.
 

Jordan

New Member
I use a 12" flower pot filled 3/4 of the way with (.5) peat moss and (.5) sand. Moist it is still and fluffy. It will hold it shape for burrowing. I leave the top quarter empty so she cannot see me if I enter the room will she is burrowing. If she sees you while she is burrowing she may stop. Make sure you have a branch or vine with easy access in and out for her.

My female veiled layed her first infertile clutch a couple months. She dropped 53 eggs. It was very hard on her. She was very dehydrated. I took some advice I found on here. I gave her a shower about an hour after she laid them. While she was in there I emptied out the eggs and placed the container back in the enclousure (sand mix still in it). I kind of felt bad about taking her eggs after all that hard work. That is why I put the container back in. I did not want her to think something was up. Panthers are different but that was the only time I have ever seen my female drink water other than from a dripper.

I think it was a posting from Frank that I read in regards to cutting down on their food. This will drop the amount of eggs they lay and the amount of clutches they lay in a year. I have a veiled so this may be a little different. I feed her 4 crickets everyday or equivalent insect sized prey item. Dust her food three times a week. I only do it once a week with my male but then again he does not have the strain of egg production. She is big for a female veiled a full 16" after her last shed.

I felt a little bad for cutting her food like that but after reading what Frank posted and doing my own research I think it is better for her in the long run. Her activity level has gone up to. I think she always in hunt mode now. This adds more entertainment in having her to as she is alway up to something in her cage.
 
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RockinLizard

New Member
I have a female veiled that I'm wondering about. I just recently got her, and will be finding something for her to dig in today. I have a bag of jungle sand that I'm not using, it's crushed walnut shells. Can I use this for her to dig in in her cage? I'll make a more appropriate setup for her when she starts digging, a large tote with a branch and a nice mixture of moist sand or whatever.

Now, what's getting me is, she's a piggy. I give her about 10 crickets and she gobbles them all up in a few minutes, then looks at me as if she's begging for more. She is getting plump. I was thinking she's eating alot because she's getting ready to become gravid, but this may not be so from what I've read now. Her feces is rather large too. She goes alot, in large amounts. Much bigger than my male veiled.
 

Jordan

New Member
I would not. They get hungray and tired whilei they are digging. I saw mine just eating some dirt while she was in there. She might ingest something that she cannot digest in that mix. You can by just straight sand in a 50 pound bag very cheap at Home Depot or Lowe's. Everyone has their own preferance on what they use but sand by itself will get the job done as long as it is moist.

I would cut her food down. I do not think denying her enough food is right but neither is making her dump a huge clutch. If that is an adult female and those are adult crickets that is way to much in my opinion.
 
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emersonc

New Member
thanks for all of the help people. I went serching around my house and found a pot that is about 18" long X 6" wide and 6" deep. My cham is about a foot long, do you think this will be big enough for her?
Also i have heard that some people use soil. I already have some fresh potting soil that im thinking about using (i dont have a car so a bag of sand is hard to carry for two miles). Would that work or does it have to be sand?
 

Brandy

New Member
Yes they can lay eggs, If you dont want her too, Do not let her have contact even visual with a male, keep diet under controll and she may not start developing eggs, Not all panthers will just start laying eggs some need to be triggered, but this is definatly no quarentee she will not lay.
 

voxxom

New Member
err. for a chameleon that big, you should be feeding her wayy more than 3 crickets a day.

way more
 

Jordan

New Member
These are reptile they spend no energy on maintaining body temperatures. A male nile crocodille at over 20' and 2000lbs will only consume 400-500lbs of meat in a year. Most people consume their own body weight and a little more in a month. Almost all of this extra food you consume is for nothing more then to keep you at a stabilized temperature. People blame holidays for why they pack on more pound but it is pretty obvious that it requires more calories to stay warm, then cool. This is instinct. That crocodille eats almost all of that meat in a one month span as zebra...etc will cross the river in following the rains to a different spot in Africa. This event is called "The Crossing" if you see a film where nile crocodiles are eating with mass numbers of migratory animals I can assure you it is in this one month span. Chameleons are no different they will eat as much as they can, when they can get. They may not get another chance for awhile in the wild but this is why it is imparative that we control their food intake. Strolling across eight adult sized cricket meals everday with little movement to have access to them would almost never happen in the wild. Running across three in a day with as little a movements as we provide in their cage is probably not likely in the wild either.
 
voxxom said:
err. for a chameleon that big, you should be feeding her wayy more than 3 crickets a day.

way more
Captive bred chameleons have no parasite load to draw the nutrients from them. They receive all that they eat. Overfeeding seems common.

Im not condoning 3 crickets- as I do not know all the details of the individual. But their diet is just that, a diet.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
In order to control the clutch size and thus extend the length of my panther chameleon's life, I control her diet and to some degree the temperature a few days after she has laid the eggs. I feed her well for a very few days after she has laid the eggs so that she can regain her strength and then cut back so she won't grow lots of follicles. You don't want to starve her...but keep the diet controlled. When I know that she is producing the eggs, I then feed her well so that the eggs she is working on will be healthy and she will be healthy too.

If diet/temperature is controlled with veiled females, they won't produce any infertile eggs (when not mated) and when mated, the clutch size can be kept smaller....but I haven't been able to completely stop panthers from producing eggs. I have only been able to control the clutch size.
 

emersonc

New Member
It is not really that i only feed her three crickets a day, it's really all taht she wants. When i would hand feed her she would eat a cricket then not be interested in another one for many hours. Lately i have been feeding her out of a milk jug that has one side cut out. I think that she is diggin her new feeder. I put about five in ther and she ate 4 the last couple of days(four a day), so it is working very well. Her tongue is still weak so i think that may be one reason taht she is not eatinga all that much. I will sometimes watch her eat (she cant see me) and if she misses, she will get all dark and walk away real sad looking, i think that she is imbaressed of herself. I try to talk possative too her, but i dont speak cham yet so she doesn't understand me all that well :D

Do you think that chams can understand us. I dont mean words, but maybe different vibrations like, "OM" or stuff like that. Maybe there is some universal sound that all beings understand as a possative reassuring sound. Has anyone experimented with that. It might be fun? though i dont know hoow well they can hear, they dont have any external ear holes. Maybe i should try different colors? I have a red tappistry, i think i will put that over her window and she if she acts any different, just maybe i will stumble upon something really cool


OM Shanti Shanti Shanti

:D :p :D
 

Jordan

New Member
If anybody can find a link to this site it would be great. The frequency that these veileds are making sounds it is below 20Hz there for we can not hear it. The site I found awhile back played a recording of a male and then speed it up so it would be audible for human ears. I thought it was pretty cool.
 
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