New to the world with an issue

Mackinback

New Member
Or atleast I hope not.
I picked up a Veiled Chameleon 2 weeks ago and he was 2 weeks old.
He has begun shedding but seems very strange. Almost stroke-like.. Legs appear to not work at times and he doesn't use his feet much. He has been eating crickets up until the shedding started.
I have been making it a point to keep him sprayed as well.

Any advise? I just don't know if this is say natural of a 1st shedding?
 

VeiledChams

Avid Member
Hey, welcome to the forum!

please fill the following out in order for us to assist you. if you have pictures, they can greatly help.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
Hello & welcome. So you have a new little person? Congratulations. Do you believe he is really only 2 weeks old? That would be super young for one to be sold but stranger things have happened here. It is possible he is having his first shed but in my experience that would not stop a baby from eating. Could you get a picture on your finger or a ruler so we have a size of scale? What are you feeding him and what size are the feeders? How do you have him housed, what kind of lights (brand and watt) and what temperatures are available in his enclosure?

We will get you on the right track with the little guy.:)
 

Mackinback

New Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Veiled Chameleon and I've had him for 2 weeks.
Handling - Once a day due to his age - Careful not to touch his sides.
Feeding - I feed him around 8 small/medium crickets.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - At the moment I am doing the ice cube drip at the moment. I have a waterfall and new cage being setup soon. Misting 1-2 times a day. I do not see him drinking.
Fecal Description - Mostly black droppings with some white droppings. No testing has been done.
History - His rear legs at times to appear to be scratching. But my main consirn is how they seem paralyzed at times. This started a day ago.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 30gal glass tank with screen top. Dual light (day/night bulbs). New cage is a all screen breather 27x30x17.
Lighting - Not sure on day bulb but night is zoo-med red nighlight. Day/Night lights are on 12hrs each.
Temperature - Room temp is 70-74 I do not measure now
Humidity - Do not know
Plants - Plastic plants
Placement - On a filing cabinet away from fans/vents. Not a real high traffic area. Cage is 4ft off floor.
Location - Midwest (Chicagoland)
Current Problem - 1st shedding but started acting weird right before. Will move around when handled but is quite unrespnsive. Has not eaten today. Will upload pictures.
 

Ekaj13

New Member
I wouldn't handle him again. It's extremely stressful to some babies. If you need to clean the cage or move him to a different cage use a stick or something to transport him.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Welcome to the world of chameleons!

Here is some information that I hope will help...
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption. Temperatures needed can vary with the species and age. For hatchling panthers I keep the temperature in the warmest area in the low 80's. For older panthers I keep it in the mid to high 80's for the most part.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
 

Elizadolots

New Member
If he's really only 2 weeks old (or 4 now) then those seem like big crickets. I would expect him to be eating pin heads and maybe some very small crickets and fruit flies.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
It looks like the old skin is still on the underside of his feet (well, on his feet too for that matter)...this might be why he's not using his feet much.
 

Echoezra

Established Member
You didn't answer supplement question, does that mean you aren't using any?
Also feeder size - I know people have different versions of the word "small", but certainly anything called medium, or even questionably medium, I would imagine would be pretty huge for a 4 week old chameleon, wouldn't it guys??
 

Mackinback

New Member
I will handle the least I can. I thought I read somewhere to wait till a month.
He doesn't seem to have any problem eating the crickets.
 

jcal

Member
Depending on how long it's been shedding I would consider extra misting or maybe a shower to help the chameleon shed the old skin.
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
He needs cricket 1/16 of an inch

ice cubes are cold, a room temp drip is better also spray warm water on his plants and the sides of his cage -- not on him

Don't use a waterfall now or later (more on that after we get him taken care of now)

He doesn't need a top on that aquarium, what king of plants and sticks does have to crawl on? Remember he has tiny feet

lights BIG PROBLEM you need a zoo med repti sun 5.0 UVB light, the tube kind. He can have major problems without that. Unless your home gets really cold he does not need a night light, it is better for him to have dark to sleep. He could have a very small watt household light during the day but only about a 25 watt. The glass tank can heat up very quickly.

This is to get you started, see if he has tiny twigs - smaller than regular match sticks to cimb on if he start to use his back feet & legs.

Again a picture would sure help




Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Veiled Chameleon and I've had him for 2 weeks.
Handling - Once a day due to his age - Careful not to touch his sides.
Feeding - I feed him around 8 small/medium crickets.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - At the moment I am doing the ice cube drip at the moment. I have a waterfall and new cage being setup soon. Misting 1-2 times a day. I do not see him drinking.
Fecal Description - Mostly black droppings with some white droppings. No testing has been done.
History - His rear legs at times to appear to be scratching. But my main consirn is how they seem paralyzed at times. This started a day ago.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 30gal glass tank with screen top. Dual light (day/night bulbs). New cage is a all screen breather 27x30x17.
Lighting - Not sure on day bulb but night is zoo-med red nighlight. Day/Night lights are on 12hrs each.
Temperature - Room temp is 70-74 I do not measure now
Humidity - Do not know
Plants - Plastic plants
Placement - On a filing cabinet away from fans/vents. Not a real high traffic area. Cage is 4ft off floor.
Location - Midwest (Chicagoland)
Current Problem - 1st shedding but started acting weird right before. Will move around when handled but is quite unrespnsive. Has not eaten today. Will upload pictures.
 

Echoezra

Established Member
Need one without d3 for everyday use. Use that one you have only a couple times a month. You need that UVB lift ASAP though, that's how he should be getting his d3 from the light.
 

Mackinback

New Member
It looks like the old skin is still on the underside of his feet (well, on his feet too for that matter)...this might be why he's not using his feet much.
I was thinking this as well.

He hasnt had any issues climbing. Would hang on the near the top (and the screen top (upside down sometimes)) most of the time and go low during feeding. So no nightlight - check. I will work on the day bulb.
I will be using eko terra 13w 10.0 uvb until then.
 

jojackson

New Member
Has it crapped lately? watch the size of feeders, smaller is better even it can handle them.
first thoughts are concern of hind limb paralysis due possible impaction. (from your description of behaviour)
But my main consirn is how they seem paralyzed at times. This started a day ago.
Is hind limb strength good?
Please describe any poop he has left and when it did so last?
How are you ensuring its water intake?
some less blurry pics will be of use. :)

I seem to have overlooked the sloughing, if skin is semi detached on feet undersides they will
sometimes behave (limb movements) erratically , particularly whilst trying to dislodge it.
 

Mackinback

New Member
I am not sure if he has lately. As I have not cleaned the tank in a couple days. Mostly black droppings with a couple white droppings. I highly doubt any are today.
His hind legs seemed fine the other day. No weaker than the front.
I do not know water intake and have read I may not see him take any.
 

Elizadolots

New Member
You've been rightly advised not to handle him, but in this case, maybe it would be worth it to take him out once and let him "ladder walk" on your fingers so he can work that shed off his feet. He might not walk much in his enclosure, but if you take him out, he'll start trying to get away from you and you can use that to your advantage.

I wouldn't recommend pulling shed off, but if he rubs his feet on your fingers enough, maybe it will come off.

Also, he looks hot to me. You need to be measuring your temps. I'm guessing he's hot. A little one like that needs a top temperature (in the basking spot) in the low 80s. Until you can get a good thermometer, I'd back off the heat bulb 4 or 5 (or even 6) inches. If your normal room is in the 70s, the bulb doesn't have to warm things up much to be in the right range.
 
Top Bottom