new to chameleons (:

piledriver

New Member
howdi.

im from israel, and most of the israelis arent famillier with the care of a chameleon.
the only chameleon i saw in israel for now(that is for sale) is the veiled chameleon.
I really want to get one of those, they are amazing.
what is the difficulties of raising a Veiled Chameleon?
i could get myself a mister with a timer that i could do that will work how many times a day that i want, i could raise a plant in the cage, and i could raise the food for the cham.
the only thing is, everybody in israel think its really tough to do it, that cham's are agressive and bites a lot, and you cannot touch her.
but here i saw tons of pics of people holding a chameleon.

oh, and you probabley ask why im suddenly into cham's and what made me got into them.
today i saw chameleon on the road, after a car runned over a half of her.
i helped the lovley chameleon to get to a branch and to get some food.
and im so sorry i cant do more, there is almost not cham's vets. and i cannot raise it in my house because its illegile.


now, can you explain me if its true that its so aggresive and the raising is so tough?
 
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kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Chameleons are one of the more difficult lizards to keep in captivity....but veileds are one of the more forgiving of our mistakes. The most common difficulties I see/hear of are prevention of MBD and egg production in females. Most of the difficulties with veiled chameleons are husbandry related.

Veileds have a reputation for being aggressive and for biting too....but there are some that are tolerant of some handling. (Tolerant is exactly what I mean too.) You will have to let the chameleon decide!

You said..."i could get myself a mister with a timer that i could do that will work how many times a day that i want, i could raise a plant in the cage, and i could raise the food for the cham"...that's a good start. Make sure that the plant is well washed (both sides of the leaves) and non-toxic. Its recommended that you gutload your insects with a nutritious diet before feeding them to the chameleon and that you provide it with UVB light so that it can produce the vitamin D3 that it needs to be able to use the calcium. I dust the insects before feeding them to my chameleons almost every time. Insects have a poor calcium/phosphorous ratio....so I make sure that the calcium powder is phosphorous-free. I also use a vitamin powder twice a month on the insects (with a beta carotene source of vitamin A since preformed vitamin A can cause overdoses if overdone). If the chameleon gets its UVB from the sun there won't be a need to supplement with vitamin D3, but if its UVB comes from artificial light, then IMHO it is.

If you get a female, you need to control her eating once she is old enough to produce eggs and you need to provide her with a suitable place to lay them. Veileds can lay eggs without being mated.

Was it a C. chamaeleon you saw?? You are lucky to have them in your country even if you can't keep them in captivity! C. chamaeleons were the first species I bred a long time ago. They are amazing chameleons....and much easier to handle than veileds!

Do you think the chameleon you rescued will be okay?

Here are some sites with good information that you might like to read if you are going to get a veiled. On the ADCHAM site, there is a link to the e-zine too...it has good information too.
http://adcham.com/
http://www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/

Can you please take some pictures of the native chameleons and post them? I'd love to see them!
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/whatreptilesneed.htm
 

Jordan

New Member
I guess the main thing that makes them harder to care for then other reptiles is exactly what you touched on piledriver. A lot people get chameleons and expect only to take care of the chameleon. You end up taking care of plants and the prey items the eat.

The veiled chameleon is one of the most aggressive species that there is. This I feel gives them a certain appeal in captivity and demands that you respect them. They can and will bite if they feel threatened. The main thing with keeping you and them on good terms is to try not to make them feel threatened. You can accomplish this with hand feeding them from time to time. This is also a good way to get them out of their cage without them realizing it. The appealing part of their aggressiveness is they are proactive in hunting their prey and can make them very fun to watch. Some chameleons sit and wait for their food to get near. Veileds go after their food most of the time.

The veiled chameleon is also considered to be the hardiest of all the chameleon species. They tolerate a wide range of temperature (and humidity) better then any other chameleon. This is why alot of people recommend them as beginner chameleons. The parts in Yemen and Saudi Arbia where they are from can get from a hundred plus degrees to freezing throughout the year.

In captivity it is imperative that you try to give them the best conditions possible. They will require a basking area that reaches 90-100 degrees (make sure that they can not get directly under it, they have big heads and it will burn them). The rest of the cage will need to be from 75-85 degrees. They require a lights that produces uvA and uvB. The uvA can be accomplished with a normal light with a heat reflector. The uvB is a little more specialized requiring flourescent light that produce these light waves. They sell these at pet stores (and on-line) based on the percentage of uvB they produce (example a 2.0 emits 2% uvB and a 5.0 emits 5% uvB). A veiled has high uvB requirements. I would say one of these lights with at least a 5% rating is the minimum. The humidity needs to stay in the range of 50-75% for them to thrive. They can tolerate less if they have to I just would not recommend it for long periods of time. The food when they are younger will have to be dusted everyday with a calcium and multivitamin supplement. As they get to adulthood the males will only require it about once a week. The females 2-3 times a week as they produce eggs which can be very draining. The cage they will be in as adults will have to be rather large and composed largely of mesh. There are a lot of these available on the open market ranging from pretty cheap to very expensive depending on what you go with. You can also make one if you are handy and if you plan it out good. They also will need a dripper that drips water for as much of the day as you can get it to do. There are many ways to make these or buy them.

You spoke of a misting system which will require some sort of drainage plan. It will really be dependent on the amount of water that goes through the system and the type of cage you are using. The main thing I use mistings for is to raise the humidity, it gives them a chance to clean their eyes and drink if they want to. I think how you would set this timer will depend on how fast the cage dries out and how quick the humidity is lost. After each misting the cage should be allowed to dry out completely. This helps to stop bacteria, fungus and molds from forming. Depending on plants, cage placement, and topographical climate the humidity can stay raised for a substaintional amount of time in the cage. Hand misting veileds can be enough in most cases but the automated system will take alot of the stress off of you depending on work, family...etc.

These animals can be hard to care for but as long as you make an honest attempt you can succeed. This will require reading alot, some trial & error, and some ingenuity on your part. You can use these past threads for alot of information: hints, tips, links and stuff you have not even thought about before. I do not really think the care for these animals is to hard but trying to fit it in with the rest of your life can be. Planning and knowing stuff ahead of time will make it easier on you and the chameleon. You can use the "search" button at the top which can narrow down what you are looking for in the old threads.

Good luck. If you have questions do not be afraid to ask.
 

piledriver

New Member
i saw you said the the veiled cham is aggressive type.
should i try to get a Jackson Cham or even a Ambioje(not sure about the name) cham?
because i would defintley would like it to be nice because i will want once in a while to hold her.

about the common chameleon i saw, ill do a walk today and see if i see her.
but i dont think she is okay, it was pretty black when i held her.
anyway, ill post if she is ok in the evening in israel(now its noon.)
 
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Frank Castle

New Member
Is it illegal to own any chameleons where you are, or just the one you found on the road? If you cant keep chameleons in your house there may be a way to do an outdoor setup that you "Trap" the chameleon into a tree in your yard.

Frank
 

piledriver

New Member
no, im not allowed to own the local chameleon.
and after a tiny check i found out which i saw on the road.
i saw a Chamaeleo chamaeleon ricticrista
looking like this http://www.exoticpets.co.il/files/camaleon.jpg
and you got another kind of chameleon in israel, the Chamaeleo chamaeleon musae
a pic of the CCM(from a very good photographer of native reptiles)


and i can own a chameleon but not a native chameleon

oh, and should i try and get a Panther Chameleon? because from what i saw they are smaller, i know they will be more expensive and more hard to get, but should i get this or just get a veiled that i will try to make less agressive by hand feeding and things?
 
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Jordan

New Member
That is a chameleo chamaeleon in the photograph above.

The veiled and panthers have very similar care to my knowledgs. No chameleon will like being handled to much. Hand feeding is an interaction I suggested that will let your chameleon see you positively. Not as a big scarey hand invading their territory. No the less chameleons will never enjoy it like some reptiles. I have a turtle that does not mind it and have seen a savannah moniter that behaved more like a dog then a fair sized lizard.

Handling either alot on a regular basis can affect their health down the line. Occasionally, like say once a week is not what I would call as bad. I remove both of mine once a week. To check their bodies for bumps, swelling, cuts...etc.

Chameleons can be very freindly after time but I would not count on it. Some interact with their owners in very different ways. It is really up to them. Forcing them into handling situations will make them fear you. Then when go to watch them in their cage they will just hide. They think you are attacking them and it is only natural for them to hide if they feel very threatened. Anything is possible.
View attachment 448

I found this in one of the galleries.
 
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kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Did you see the chameleon tonight that got hit by the car?

You asked...."should i try and get a Panther Chameleon? because from what i saw they are smaller, i know they will be more expensive and more hard to get, but should i get this or just get a veiled that i will try to make less agressive by hand feeding and things?"...full grown panthers don't differ in size much from full grown veileds. Most of the male panthers that I have had have been more tolerant of handling than the male veileds....but there are always exceptions. It will just depend on the chameleon you end up with. I have found female panther chameleons less tolerant than female veileds...but again, there are always exceptions.

The one in the picture that you posted is very similar to the ones I had and bred. I miss them....they were so tolerant of handling...and could even be kept in pairs.

Hope you figure out which one you prefer!
 
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