New Panther Enclosure

skoram

Established Member
COBs! A man of my own heart :).

COB all the way! The ones in the photo are Bridgelux Decor Series Vero 18s, 5600K 90CRI. I have some similar Vero 13s on another enclosure. I may replace them soon with 4000K Veros. I wish I had gotten 4000K in the first place but when I purchased these about 4-5 years ago most people were saying 5000-6000K was the way to go.

On a side note here are some photos I took yesterday of Lightning:

20200213_092848816_05.jpg 20200213_092848816_06.jpg
 
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cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
COB all the way! The ones in the photo are Bridgelux Decor Series Vero 18s, 5600K 90CRI. I have some similar Vero 13s on another enclosure. I may replace them soon with 4000K Veros. I wish I had gotten 4000K in the first place but when I purchased these about 4-5 years ago most people were saying 5000-6000K was the way to go.

I run Vero 29 Decors, 5600k :).

Decors are 97 CRI, not 90 :).


Why do you want to change for 4000?

I have been aiming to replace my Veros with the new sunlikes, you might look into those too. There is a Chinese model that uses Bridgelux diodes, as well.

I have a thread about them here. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/a-really-neat-new-led.173498/
 

skoram

Established Member
I run Vero 29 Decors, 5600k :).

Decors are 97 CRI, not 90 :).


Why do you want to change for 4000?

I have been aiming to replace my Veros with the new sunlikes, you might look into those too. There is a Chinese model that uses Bridgelux diodes, as well.

I have a thread about them here. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/a-really-neat-new-led.173498/

What I have is not Decor, but Vero, Decor Series. It seems there is a difference based on literature from Bridgelux. If you look at their strictly Decor series, they are almost all 97 CRI, but the Veros are typically lower, 70 or 80 CRI.

This is exactly what I purchased from Digi-key:

https://www.digikey.co.za/products/en?keywords=976-1287-ND

There is a lot of conflicting information floating around so it's hard to know what is correct, but these days I have been reading a lot of reports that say 4000K most closely resembles natural light and is best for plants. Whether that is true or not, I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes. My plants have always done tremendously well under these Vero 18s, unless there is a problem elsewhere like too much water. But I have noticed a "cooler" tint to many photos I have taken under those lights. That is why I was considering a change to 4000K.
 

skoram

Established Member
I have been aiming to replace my Veros with the new sunlikes, you might look into those too. There is a Chinese model that uses Bridgelux diodes, as well.

I have a thread about them here. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/a-really-neat-new-led.173498/

I'm already one step ahead of you :) I read your thread this morning (Korea time) while commuting to work. The ones you linked on Digi-key are made by a Korean company too, Seoul Semiconductor. Do you plan to purchase the 5000K version? I will probably will purchase some of these soon. They look like the best full spectrum LEDs out there right now.
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
What I have is not Decor, but Vero, Decor Series. It seems there is a difference based on literature from Bridgelux. If you look at their strictly Decor series, they are almost all 97 CRI, but the Veros are typically lower, 70 or 80 CRI.

This is exactly what I purchased from Digi-key:

https://www.digikey.co.za/products/en?keywords=976-1287-ND

There is a lot of conflicting information floating around so it's hard to know what is correct, but these days I have been reading a lot of reports that say 4000K most closely resembles natural light and is best for plants. Whether that is true or not, I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes. My plants have always done tremendously well under these Vero 18s, unless there is a problem elsewhere like too much water. But I have noticed a "cooler" tint to many photos I have taken under those lights. That is why I was considering a change to 4000K.

Ya that's just the minium though, the actual light is usually 95-97 in independent testing.

There is a few factors at work here, with the Plants and the 4k rating.

The people that have plants that are preferring 4k, light. Are growing plants that flower for profit. I am assuming you know where I am going with that HAHAHA :).

The general thought process, Blue = Veg, Red = Flower, and there is some truth to that. However not to the extent that some company's run with, and leave out Green, Yellows, Cyans Ect.

The reasoning for 4k becoming popular, is because it has higher Red light to it, blues are boosted in 5600/6500k, reds are fairly low. Remember those guys want ALOT of red. They are also using a sole source of lighting, just the LEDs.

As far as it being closer to the sun, it's not. 4k is Warm White, a bright sunny day is not warm white, it's Cool white, the sun in real life, spends very little time at 4k, it spends more at 2700-3000k, that is during sunrise and sundown.

The entire midday is 5600-7000k, a cloudy day is 9-10k. The majority of the day, during a bright sunny day is 5600k+ or cool white, to a spectrometer.

This is not only representative of blues however, as the sun is a more balanced spectrum. The sun has high reds, and high blues, and high of every color. As it is a black body radiator

That's what K values are, if you heated a piece of metal, to 4000 degrees, it would glow the color of 4000 Kelvin. If you keep heating it becomes, 6500k. This is seen with flames, the orange red, tip is not as hot as the blue center.

So they want to boost reds, to better flowering. Which is fine, we also want reds, as it's natural. However 4000k is not the answer, that's still not a natural daylight, and the reds are still not that great. It a compromise, for the LED tech to pump the most Lumens Per Watt, possible while still getting good growth.

Our animals are alot more sensitive to colors than we are, as well so that plays a role.


However in our specific use case, we have a balance. Your halogen basking lights, provide intense red spectrum. So your reds are filled, already with much much more Red than they would be with a 4k LED.

Our UVB bulbs, balance the other way, they are 8.4k, so they revert the balance back. A well diffused together UVB light and halogen where the light blends, would show around 5600-6500k range. Assuming each was equal lumens and diffused together well. For alot of people, with Chameleons needing low wattage basking, the UVB is slightly brighter.

If you want the closest IMO to sunlight. The ideal setup would be the Sunlike LEDs I posted in that thread. @5600/6500k Accompanied with wide flood Halogens, and dual UVB lights. This will allow a good diffusion pattern, and you can lift the lights up a bit (as dual UVBs) to help it blend more.
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm already one step ahead of you :) I read your thread this morning (Korea time) while commuting to work. The ones you linked on Digi-key are made by a Korean company too, Seoul Semiconductor. Do you plan to purchase the 5000K version? I will probably will purchase some of these soon. They look like the best full spectrum LEDs out there right now.

Yes, there is a higher wattage model that just came out. It's max amperage is 2250, and is a 29mm cob, I am trying to wait for that to hit the US market, hopefully soon. If it doesn't in the next month or 2, I may opt for the Chinese version, or the lower wattage cobs. However my cage is very large, and my plants need major DLI, so I want the highest wattage I can get my hands on lol.

The biggest model currently on the site has a limit of 1455, and the lumens per watt overdriven at that are terrible. I use Meanwell LDDs, so I need something that will accept at least 1500ma.

If you go with those, then I would opt to 5000k version (I think that's as high as Digikey goes).
That would be good enough, with UVB lights, raising the tempature I'm pretty sure.

They do come in up to 7k, but for some reason Digikey doesn't carry that in cob format. You can get 6500k in strips, and 5600k I think it was in quantum boards but they were overpriced.

Just don't tell Dec about the Sunlikes. He just bought HLG QBs on my recommendation :(.
 
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skoram

Established Member
Ya that's just the minium though, the actual light is usually 95-97 in independent testing.

There is a few factors at work here, with the Plants and the 4k rating.

The people that have plants that are preferring 4k, light. Are growing plants that flower for profit. I am assuming you know where I am going with that HAHAHA :).

The general thought process, Blue = Veg, Red = Flower, and there is some truth to that. However not to the extent that some company's run with, and leave out Green, Yellows, Cyans Ect.

The reasoning for 4k becoming popular, is because it has higher Red light to it, blues are boosted in 5600/6500k, reds are fairly low. Remember those guys want ALOT of red. They are also using a sole source of lighting, just the LEDs.

As far as it being closer to the sun, it's not. 4k is Warm White, a bright sunny day is not warm white, it's Cool white, the sun in real life, spends very little time at 4k, it spends more at 2700-3000k, that is during sunrise and sundown.

The entire midday is 5600-7000k, a cloudy day is 9-10k. The majority of the day, during a bright sunny day is 5600k+ or cool white, to a spectrometer.

This is not only representative of blues however, as the sun is a more balanced spectrum. The sun has high reds, and high blues, and high of every color. As it is a black body radiator

That's what K values are, if you heated a piece of metal, to 4000 degrees, it would glow the color of 4000 Kelvin. If you keep heating it becomes, 6500k. This is seen with flames, the orange red, tip is not as hot as the blue center.

So they want to boost reds, to better flowering. Which is fine, we also want reds, as it's natural. However 4000k is not the answer, that's still not a natural daylight, and the reds are still not that great. It a compromise, for the LED tech to pump the most Lumens Per Watt, possible while still getting good growth.

Our animals are alot more sensitive to colors than we are, as well so that plays a role.


However in our specific use case, we have a balance. Your halogen basking lights, provide intense red spectrum. So your reds are filled, already with much much more Red than they would be with a 4k LED.

Our UVB bulbs, balance the other way, they are 8.4k, so they revert the balance back. A well diffused together UVB light and halogen where the light blends, would show around 5600-6500k range. Assuming each was equal lumens and diffused together well. For alot of people, with Chameleons needing low wattage basking, the UVB is slightly brighter.

If you want the closest IMO to sunlight. The ideal setup would be the Sunlike LEDs I posted in that thread. @5600/6500k Accompanied with wide flood Halogens, and dual UVB lights. This will allow a good diffusion pattern, and you can lift the lights up a bit (as dual UVBs) to help it blend more.

Wow. I have not read a better nor more thorough explanation about 4000K vs. 5600/6000K anywhere on the internet. Thank you. You instantly changed my mind on the 4000Ks and made me feel alot better about having purchased 5600K.

Yes, there is a higher wattage model that just came out. It's max amperage is 2250, and is a 29mm cob, I am trying to wait for that to hit the US market, hopefully soon. If it doesn't in the next month or 2, I may opt for the Chinese version, or the lower wattage cobs. However my cage is very large, and my plants need major DLI, so I want the highest wattage I can get my hands on lol.

The biggest model currently on the site has a limit of 1455, and the lumens per watt overdriven at that are terrible. I use Meanwell LDDs, so I need something that will accept at least 1500ma.

If you go with those, then I would opt to 5000k version (I think that's as high as Digikey goes).
That would be good enough, with UVB lights, raising the tempature I'm pretty sure.

They do come in up to 7k, but for some reason Digikey doesn't carry that in cob format. You can get 6500k in strips, and 5600k I think it was in quantum boards but they were overpriced.

Just don't tell Dec about the Sunlikes. He just bought HLG QBs on my recommendation :(.

29mm may be too strong for my needs, especially at 2+ amps. My Vero 18s don't run any higher than 1A and provide plenty of lumens even to the bottom of my 36x18x36 enclosure. The 19mm Sunlike CoBs look a bit weaker than the Vero 18s, but similar enough. Lumens/watt is lower, but I find that is always the case with higher CRI. However, it is tempting to have the option of pushing lumens super high. If not needed I can always run 29mm at lower amps. Will the 29mm COBs also be capped at 5000K?
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Wow. I have not read a better nor more thorough explanation about 4000K vs. 5600/6000K anywhere on the internet. Thank you. You instantly changed my mind on the 4000Ks and made me feel alot better about having purchased 5600K.



29mm may be too strong for my needs, especially at 2+ amps. My Vero 18s don't run any higher than 1A and provide plenty of lumens even to the bottom of my 36x18x36 enclosure. The 19mm Sunlike CoBs look a bit weaker than the Vero 18s, but similar enough. Lumens/watt is lower, but I find that is always the case with higher CRI. However, it is tempting to have the option of pushing lumens super high. If not needed I can always run 29mm at lower amps. Will the 29mm COBs also be capped at 5000K?

Ya the Lumens per watt is pretty bad for the Sunlikes. However that's because look at the spectrum. They pump every color evenly, it's way to spike Blue, or Green and red, and get bright light with low wattage, however trying to recreate the sun not so easy.

We now have 2 flavors of LED choice, we pump mass light and use little wattage, or we go back to T5 LM/W, and have a almost perfect recreation of the sun. Both are valid, it becomes a choice of what you want for your viewing and your animals.
 
Looking good! :D I have some stick envy - that big twisty one in particular is lovely! Ah, the have a big enough build to incorporate philodendrons!

A lot of the top will fill out as the plants grow in, but you could definitely mount some epiphytes for color pops on the back wall/side walls, and maybe some ground covering plants for interest. I'm very fond of wandering Jews for ground/side coverage - they grow like weeds! Creeping fig is also a nice covering plant, though it grows much more slowly. Fittonia nerve plants come in a few different colors and do well in terrariums, polkadot plants, waffle plants... pending your lighting, crotons could work. Lots of options - the hard part is narrowing it down haha!

For epiphytes, I love neoregalia bromeliads, vriesea bromeliads, and a variety of airplants. They all like high light, and are perfect for mounting to branches and backgrounds. Epiphytic orchids (like the common moth orchid) also do well when mounted!

My 36x18x36, featuring a number of mounted plants.

View attachment 252756
I have the exact same tank you have and I was wondering about the doors. Is it important to remove them when housing a Chameleon? Or is based on the Environmental conditions in side the tank? I have been trying to search up anything related to removing the doors for a Chameleon, but I only find videos on literally, how to remove the doors. haha. Thanks in advance for your reply. :)
 
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