New members

[cham gr]

Hello! We are 2 new members. Many apologizes if we don't post this thread at the right part of the forum...
We just got our 2 four-month calyptratus chams a week ago, and we are excited as we get familiar with this spieces.
Except for out new pets, we have mostly snakes.
We hope that we can exchange experiences and knowledge through this forum! Many greetings from greece!


spyridoula + tzenakos inside their terrarium

 

[Gensen]

Welcome!

Welcome to the Forums... this is a great resource for information and there are allot of helful knowledgable people here as well.

Congrats on your new family members. Do you have questions about proper care , lighting or set up? Do you know? If not plese do not hesitate to ask here in the Forums...

Good luck with your "kidos"!

 

[carol5208]

Hello and welcome! I see you are from Athens Greece! I have not seen too many members on here from there. Good luck with your new chameleons and you have come to the right place if you have questions or are in doubt are anything. Just a quick obeservation to start off_It is not recommended to house your chameleons together! Is that what you are doing?. They look like they are in the same cage?

 

[Gensen]

Agreed!

Hello and welcome! I see you are from Athens Greece! I have not seen too many members on here from there. Good luck with your new chameleons and you have come to the right place if you have questions or are in doubt are anything. Just a quick obeservation to start off_It is not recommended to house your chameleons together! Is that what you are doing?. They look like they are in the same cage?

Yes, not sure but yes Carol is correct it is recommended that each Cham have their own seperate enclosures.

 

[cham gr]

It is not recommended to house your chameleons together!

Firstly, thanx for the welcome!
From what we know, since there are of different sex -one female and one male- there is no problem. Also, they seem to get well with each other...But why do you say that there might be a problem?

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!

If you keep the male and female together they will likely mate as soon as they are sexually mature...but its not necessarily true that they are full grown at that age. I like to make sure the female is done growing her own bones, etc. before I put the drain of laying fertile eggs on her. Also, as they get older there can be stress between them...sometimes its a visible stress (you can see by their reactions to each other that they are stressed) but sometimes its silent. In the wild if they don't want to be near each other they can move away....in captivity they have the limitations of the cage preventing that.

This is information I often post for newbies....
Exposure to proper UVB, appropriate temperatures, supplements, a supply of well-fed/gutloaded insects, water and an appropriate cage set-up are all important for the well-being of your chameleon.

Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light.

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects before you feed them to the chameleon with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it.

If you dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. (Some UVB lights have been known to cause health issues, so the most often recommended one is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light.) D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it.

Dusting twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while.

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs....so its important too.

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.

Here are some good sites for you to read...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200604210...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

Sorry this is to long...but hope it helps.

 

[cham gr]

phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it

Thnx very much for the informations! They are very useful. Are you suggesting that the powder should not contail phosporos at all? (by phos.-free)?
We are suggested that we should dust the crickets with powder milk with an ratio of phos-calcium-D3: 100.000 - 10.000 - 100. Do you think that should do?

If you keep the male and female together they will likely mate as soon as they are sexually mature...but its not necessarily true that they are full grown at that age.

Today the chams are about 3 months old. So, we have estimated that when they will probably get to reproduction season (after march), the female will be already 8-9 at least. Is this correct? Or is it possible that she might get pregnant sooner than march? This is very important because we are already thinkin seriously about moving her out in a different enclosure!

Thank you very much for the links as well!

 

[jessica]

Hi And welcome to the forum!


Seeing a male constantly she could become receptive at an early age, I would seperate them so this doesn't happen.

 

[carol5208]

Both the calcium supplements most use are phosphoruous free, with d3 and without.

 

[kinyonga]

There is already phosphorus in the insects and more isn't needed IMHO.

Sexual maturity in veileds can be much earlier than 8 months depending on the care/husbandry....and its possible that the presence of the male may play a part in this.

 

[Gensen]

Best to seperate...

Yes, even if you would choose to breed them later on down the road I would recommend seperating them as soon as possible. Chameleons really should not be housed together as others have mentioned it could cause stress even if only during intervals and stress is never good!

Glad to see you are already learning so much here on the forums!

 

[cham gr]

So the reproduction period has nothing to do with the season... they could get to reproduce even in january? That is really our question, because we were told that the chams won't get to reproduce before march, due to temperatures etc. Also, we were told that they might soon get to divide their territories and there won't be any problem after that...Do you know if this is true?

We are thinking about spliting the terrarium in two, with a vertical screen. Would this do, or should they not have eye contact at all, so as it would be better to use a piece of wood instead? Also, we have a problem with the uvb. If we use a screen to separate the terra, could we keep only one uvb lamp, and let the one cham get lighting through the screen?

 

[carol5208]

Nothing to do with the season at all! They could possibly divide their territories, and if they did it might be the opposite and they might get defensive. Rule is do not house together.So you are saying that only cham will get UVB then They both have to have UVB of course, so what are you trying to say? Are you aware that your female can lay eggs clutches that are infertile when not even mated with the male? If you are going to separate them I would use something where they cannot see each other because yes, it could cause undo stress. Just my opinion!

 

[cham gr]

They both have to have UVB of course, so what are you trying to say?

Of course both, it was just a thought that maybe one of them could be lighted through the separating screen. But finally, we have decided to use completely different enclosures, just to be sure!
Do the dimension of the terrarium play some part it the degree they are affected by each other's presence? Our enclosure is really wide and the chams are on different parts of it, on different plants most hours of the day...Here is a photo of the enclosure

Are you aware that your female can lay eggs clutches that are infertile when not even mated with the male?

Now this is something we learned from posts in this forum, and we don't know many things about it. There are so many issues poping up and we really feel like we have so many quizes to solve in time!
A very important reason is that our personal friend breeder and supplier has turned out to mislead us regarding some issues like the co-housing and the seasoning reproducing...That's why we are troubled
Hope we're not being irritating with all the questions.

 

[carol5208]

of course you are not irritating! That's what the purpose of this forum is to share knowledge and help one another out! I think you are wise by getting the seperate enclosures. I think your chams will be happier in the long run. We usually find that the petstores over here in the U.S. often ill inform the people buying chameleon's from them and then they wind up with sick chameleons! You are getting your info straight from the breeder so that is not the norm over here that a breeder would give out false info. Maybe over where you live, they just do things differently?. We are just trying to guide you with information that has been successful for us in keeping a healthy chameleon.

 

[carol5208]

I cannot answer for how things are in Greece, but I want to ask how long your friend has been breeding chameleons? I mean if it has been for sometime, then he/she must know about the breeding cycles? I don't see how the area in which you live could effect that. Chameleons over here lay eggs year round and reproduce .

 

[cham gr]

Our friend is a snake - breeder mostly. He has just started breeding chams, so I guess, he has a lot to learn as well. We will let you know as soon as we have more information about the breeding cycle in Greece. We don't think we can say anything right now, and what we're thinking of is that maybe we should exchange some information with people breeding chams here in Greece, as well, so as to answer to that.

 

[carol5208]

Yes that would be a good idea! Like I said as far as I know, a Veiled cham in the U.S. is the same as a Veiled cham in the UK and I don't think their geographical location affects when they lay eggs! If it does, then I guess I have learned something new!!!!

 

[mpbm31]

Hello Greece! Welcome! You have come to the right place for about anything you need when it comes to the chameleon world.

 

[cham gr]

dear friends.

our friend is a member of greek herpetological society(elerpe).he has been in gialova in peloponnesos in greece for the conservation and protection of the african chameleon (chamaeleo africanus).


from breeding reports and keeping in mind that chamaeleo calyptratus and chamaeleo africanus share many commons. we have to tell you this.


1+
from his experience in breeding veiled chameleons here in greece in athens (location of captivity) speciments were imported from captive breeding from europe at age of 2 months old at mids of september.

the animals got sexually mature in the age of 10 months when first copulation occured.this means that animals obviusly were sexually mature in the age of 8 months -----in early spring.

while chameleons never truly hibernate the two months old speciments ''woke up'' in next spring as adults and ready to breed.in early august the female laid successfully 33 eggs which hatched in next february.(captivity conditions)


from field reports in gialova of speciments of chamaeleo africanus within the last 15 years of observation in nature we have to say that in winter we can observe adult an semi adult animals while in early summer only adult speciments are observed.the only season when hatchlings and adults are seen is in late summer while this is the hatching season late august to early september.

in egypt the egg laying season is in october.


1+
captive speciments (male an female veiled chameleons) here in greece were kept (both) in an 110 cm x 110 cm x 170cm (w xd xh) melamine front opened cage indoors and in winter temperatures of 15 oC and basking spot of 32oC.

they were feeding properly (but less) but also turned in their herbivorus winter habit..
in an 8 hour day cycle.while chameleons live in regions with big night temperature drop they seem to get stimulised in these conditions.

to have an idea of their cold-like prefer you certainly know winters day temps in coastal areas (natural habitat of chamaeleo africanus) reaches 5-8 oC here in greece.

here in greece september young imports get used in our climate that are getting their first brumation and get adult in early spring.so breeding cycle is easily enstablished.

never had experiense with false gravid conditions and egg bound or early breeding problems because winter low temperatures are a fragment to early breedings.

by our friend

marios vergetopoulos.