New cage concept. Opnions?

Hello All,
I'm in the process of conceptualizing a new panther chameleon cage and have some very new approaches to handling some of the issues of current enclosures.
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Here's the concept.
Construction:

Walls:
Three Plexiglas sides. Two side Plexiglas and a one epic hinged front door. The background will be wood painted and sealed with clear lacquer.

Frame:
Wood painted frame with plexiglass walls siliconed to frame.

Top of Cage:
The top of the cage would house the misting nozzle, drip system, Florissant light, and basking light. Build into the back of the wall would be a small computer case fan that would have a screen in front of it to prevent crickets from escaping.

Bottom of Enclosure:
In the bottom would be a large tuba-wear to collect water from drip, and misting system. I would install a disconnect-able drain pipe leading to a large reservoir for drainage. There would be live plants in buckets in sitting in the tub-a-wear container. In the back wall of the bottom of the enclosure would be another small screened computer fan.

Cycles:
Here's where it gets interesting! Here's the cycle from around 7am to 7pm.

Morning: Timers turn lights and activate small mist cycle. Humidity is created to required amount and regulated for a set amount of hours. I'm guessing 3-4 hours?

After the 'wet' cycle the enclosure then goes into a 'dry' cycle, where the two small computer fans are turned on for a set amount of time to dry the enclosure. The enclosure would remain dry for a set amount of time. Guessing 1-2 hours to dry things up and increase ventilation.

This cycle could be repeated as much as necessary to adapt to whatever subspecies of chameleon is in the enclosure.

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Considering all of the timing and systems could have changeable parameters do you think that the cage design would suit the needs for the chameleon adequately?

My thoughts in using plexiglass rather than screen is for efficiency loss in humidity. It is very easy to maintain humidity within a solid environment. The downside to doing this is the possibility of build up of mold/bacteria in the enclosure that would make the cham sick. By introducing a timed dry cycle allowing the enclosure to dry out adequately would (IN THEORY) eleviate this problem.

I know plexiglass is not preferable in construction because of them seeing their reflections and becoming stressed, however I see chams in many pet shops etc. that are thriving in them!? So I'm wondering if this is urban chameleon legend?

What do the Seniors think of the cage concept, will it work?

This is obviously something I have been thinking of for some time now and would really like to hear what you guys think.
 
If this enclosure for a veiled or a panther? most common of the kept species... forgive me if im simply assuming.

Either way, too much plexiglass, which makes you just asking for a URI

Veileds in the natural habitat endure lower humidity naturally,

S.A, Yemen, and some parts of Jordan where they have been found are usually dry and arid ( lack of moisture in the air ).

Panthers usually do endure higher levels of humidity but remember they live in trees, not confined boxes.

Plexiglass will sure raise the humidity, but it will also prevent the moisture from leaving naturally (air currents, natural evaporation, e.t.c).

I would say to either do a combo screen/plexiglass where three sides of the walls (Left, Back, and Right) are partially screened and partially plexiglass (50/50 ratio). The Front and top remain fully screened.

Another option is the left and right wall being plexiglass (100%) and the back and front wall being 100% screen.

Both of these methods, in addition to live plans and proper misting schedules will ensure that animal gets the proper amounts of humidity it needs without a tremendous amount of effort.

Also consider, what if the fans fail while your not home?

The humidity could get too high and the animal can potentially aspirate water if it starts to collect. Its also highly likely a URI would result, or that animal would over heat from the ambient temperature being too extreme.

In theory, its a wonderful project that uses technology to replicate real environments, in practicality it would not work out so well.
 
I believe your concept can be worked out, and may be very promising. However, it will require a lot of time and testing! But i doubt this is something you fear the way you are planning things, am I wrong? :p

You will have a few things to look up. First, make sure the paint and silicone arent toxic. Second, your misting and ventilation schedules will need to be tried before putting your chameleon in it, in order to make sure the proper air flow is received (not too much, not not enough!), along with enough rainfall. As far as the misting goes, there isnt a perfect method as far as i know. A few rains for a few minutes every few hours is good. So anything between 4 to 7 minutes, 2 to 5 times a day should be enough.

Since you like timers, i would suggest you to turn one light on, then a second one maybe 20 to 30 minutes later. The goal of that is to reproduce the natural intensity of sunlight as the day starts (and obviously ends), since you already know that the sunlight isnt at its highest right at the beginning of the day :) Of course, if its too complex to reproduce, there is no need to absolutely do that! ;)

What size should your project be by the way?

I assume your roof will be made of screening, right? If so, perhaps you could make a few holes in your plexiglass to ensure some more air flowing, even if its not too big.

The debate about glass (or plexiglass) is one that isnt close to be over! My personal concerns about glass enclosures are:
1) Humidity and air flow (you should have it covered!)
and
2) Reflection on the glass. -- On that matter, i believe that you could easily keep an eye on it for a few weeks to make sure everything is alright. If there is any problem, im sure it will be possible to find something to fix this matter, but since not all chameleons are disturbed by their reflection, as some of them probably dont even see their own reflection when they are inside a glass enclosure, i believe your project is worth trying! :) This is just my opinion, but when there is only one variable that isnt "perfect" or universally accepted (and obviously if its not a major or vital variable), I believe its worth trying it out! :)

Good luck and keep us updated! I am eager to see some pictures!!
 
@SpinyFrank: If the proper testing is done, and if he made sure the proper air flow is achieved, i doubt the URI will be a problem, as some of the highest valuable breeders in here are also using glass enclosures. And as far as i know, most of them dont even use fans.

Of course, i wouldnt recommend such setting for any beginner, but Movieman seems pretty serious in his plan, and he looks like someone responsible and a good thinking man. Therefore, i see it as less risky than for some other people. :) Of course, i could be wrong in my assumption, but i doubt it! ;)

If the fans stop working, or if the electricity goes off, which is more than possible, i doubt his chameleon will get URI within a day. And since any breeder is supposed to check on their chameleon everyday (or have someone check on them everyday!), if there is any technology problem it should be fixed pretty fast! ;) One thing i like in his project is the fact that he uses TWO small fans instead of one big. This way, if one breaks, he should only lose the power of one, leaving another one working and ensuring the air flow is still good.

Just my opinion man! :)
 
Here's the details about the fans... The top fan will suck air in and the bottom fan will blow air out. This will create a column of passing through air which should dry out the enclosure very efficiently.

You guys are right LOTS and LOTS of testing must be done before I would even think of putting any chameleon inside of it! I'm planning for a panther cham.

I am also planning on using at least one live plant and right now my dimensions are 1.5x2.5x4ft. It will perfectly sit ontop of my dresser in my room. My previous enclosure was 7ft and my cham never used the bottom 3ft of it.

I'm really not that worried about the fans, or lights going out because I work from home 80% of the time and would be able to closely monitor any changes.

Timing a delay between the two lights to mimic the morning sun rising is a great suggestion and I did that on my previous enclosure.

I'm glad to see some response from this concept as I am anxious to green light it and start construction.
 
I am wondering... Why do you plan on putting the fan sucking air in on top, and the blowing air out fan on the bottom? Why not the opposite?

By the way, i don't possess the "universially correct" answer! I am just curious. :)

Also, would it be possible to have like two screening holes on your door (or on the sides), one on top and one of the bottom? I think it wouldn't be too much and i'm sure you could make something looking pretty good! :)
 
Hey moviemanmania, You should check with summoner12. He has some really good automated elec gadgetry that he has been working out for quite some time. He could save you some time with that part of your project. There have been a couple of threads on it. just a thought.
 
I think your idea sounds pretty intrigueing. But personally I would plexi the front door and the back wall. I would screen the sides. Or you could screen the bottom 1/2 of both sides. That would create a chimney like effect. If you did that I dont think you'd need the fans, and you'd have a better view of the cham with plexi on the front. With the back wall plexi you could mount your misting nozzles to spray from front to back so most of the water would drain down and stay within the confines of the enclosure. Your going to have to design a well thought out drainage system so that water doesnt puddle in the container. Other than that I think it will work in theory. Its going to be a lot of work though.
 
Your right, if there is anything that I learned building my last enclosure is how important sufficient drainage is! I am going to have a disconnect-able drain line leading to a waste reservoir.

What other issues can you foresee?
 
Priced out the plexiglass today and found some at lowe's that is very thin, 1/16th inch that I will silicone to the frame. This was the project dealbreaker was the cost of the plexiglass. Now, finding that all the plexi for the project will only cost me $40.00 I am greenlighting this project and plan to begin construction on the frame tomorrow. I will take pics of the construction process and post them here or on my blog.

jon r.
 
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