My Quads are turning 7 months old

Mikey1two

Member
Here are my two males. Their horns are coming out really nice.


This is one of my two, what I believe are females. The nubs are smaller than the above two males and she? has less of a sailfin. These are the first babies I hatched and im still up in the air on the sexing part.
 
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Mikey1two

Member
first guy is 8.1 grams
second is 9.1 g
third is 9.3 g
and my 4th (not pictured, getting a token error while trying to upload) is 8.5 g

I have noticed that Quads seem to grow a little slower. Is this normal with Quads? My Quads hatched over a 3 week period. Im not sure which ones are younger, maybe the smaller ones!
 
I'm not sure what the "normal" weights should be at 7 months, but most agree that quads are slower growers compared to other species. Having a clutch hatch over a 3 week period is not normal though, at least in my experience with quads. Very interesting. Were the eggs incubated in the usual way, in close proximity to one another? If the eggs from a clutch are split into different groups and incubated in separate containers, I've heard that clutch-mates sometimes hatch over a greater period of time. Coordinated hatching, as with sea turtles, presumably makes it easier for hatchlings to reach the surface when they have to dig their way out from beneath the ground.
 

Zach Valois

New Member
You may have posted it elsewhere already, but would you mind posting photos of your setups and care regime for these guys?

Beautiful animals, thanks for sharing!
 

Mikey1two

Member
here is my 4th baby and what i believe to be a female as well.


here are my "butterfly cages" set in an out-of-order shower...against my wifes wishes! She rather see it fixed, but with 12 more eggs about to hatch in a month or so.....good luck:D


Planted with home made vines and some benjamins and other house plants
anybody know what plant i have on the left? I narrowed it down to something "gold dust", but I really don't know!


Lights set on a timer (12 on, 12 off) one 48in plant light, on 48in repti-sun 5.0 and two 250w heat lamps to give some warmth.


automated mister set on a timer to come on 4 times a day for 2 minutes. and then i give extra watering after i feed.
 

laurie

Retired Moderator
Nice set up, where did you ever get that idea?:rolleyes: my quads all hatched within 2 days. They do grow super slow, but they are the sweetest babies on th planet. Your quads all look just wonderful, good job. But then I expected nothing less of you.:)
 

Mikey1two

Member
I got the idea from this forum member that knows a lot about raising Quads. I don't think I could of done it without her help and with that I want to say THANK YOU, Laurie!:)

Pamnsam94 might have answered the question about them hatching over 3 weeks, I split the first 13 up in two groups. Temps from one side to the other of my home made incubator played a factor in that I'm guessing. My current 12 are all together this time around.
 
here is my 4th baby and what i believe to be a female as well.



I would say female also.

here are my "butterfly cages" set in an out-of-order shower...against my wifes wishes! She rather see it fixed, but with 12 more eggs about to hatch in a month or so.....good luck:D


I can relate. I have an out-of-order shower too that I used for chameleons for a while. In my case though, not only would my wife rather see it fixed, but I would too. We just need to budget for it. :rolleyes: You'll definitely have your hands full with possibly another 12 on the way. I hope they all hatch for you. What supplements and frequency did you give to the mother(s) of your clutches. Specifically, I want to know if you gave preformed vitamin A to the mother. Are the 12 eggs from the same mother and father of the 4 seven month olds?
 

Mikey1two

Member
I fed my female mainly a gut loaded diet with calcium added when i figured out she had eggs forming. I added no preformed vitamin A to the mother as it wasn't until later that I read up on giving it to mothers to be. Laurie touched base on this in a few of her post here on the forums. I'm sure if you are asking the question you have seen them posts.
I now consider myself a little more educated on quads and feel that each clutch after my first will only get better. Preformed Vitamin A will be included in any future mother that I breed.

My 12 eggs are from the same parents as my 4 babies. They are the second clutch that my female gave me before she escaped and found her way to our backyard pond the day after she deposited the 12 eggs.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/happy-day-turned-tragic-83095/
I kept a small record of the female up to the day she deposited.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/does-my-female-look-gravid-you-81639/
She, as well as the male, were both wild caught and were adjusted to my Southern California climate living in my outside cage year round.

here is my male
https://www.chameleonforums.com/pictures-my-male-quad-76248/
 
Please tell us what supplements and frequency you are using on your four 7 month olds. Unlike the parents, which you housed year round outside (the male for over 5 years, correct?), are the youngsters kept strictly indoors in those butterfly cages? Do they get all of their D3 requirements through exposure to a UVB bulb or do you use a supplement that contains D3 (if so which ones and what frequency?)? You said you didn't give any preformed vitamin A to the mother, but you did give calcium. I'm assuming you dusted with a pure calcium supplement with no D3. You also mentioned gutloading. I'm curious if your gutload was strictly whole, non-processed foods (a variety of fruits and vegetables) or if your gutload also included processed commercial feeds (some of those do, of course, contain both preformed vitamin A and D3). I'm also curious what feeders you used/use. If you sometimes buy your feeder insects, and if you ever feed them to your chameleons soon after getting them (before those insects had a chance to clear their guts), your adults may have received preformed vitamin A by that means. Since I don't know how long you had your female before you noticed she was gravid the first time, I'm wondering if she might have been gravid when you got her or if the eggs were definitely a result of her breeding with your male. I'm asking all of these questions because the answers will be helpful in trying to determine whether or not quads are able to convert beta carotene to any significant degree (if at all) to a useable form of vitamin A, a vitamin most would agree is essential in producing healthy neonates. Obviously, whatever you are doing is working. Your 7 month olds look great. We'll all benefit from any info you provide so please, entertain us with more details. :D

Perry
 
So, your current clutch of 12 was laid on 5/11/12? Mine hatched over a few days but 10 of them hatched just 2 days past the 5 month mark. How long did your first clutch take? I know you mentioned that there was a difference of 3 weeks between the first and the last one that hatched, but you also mentioned that they were incubated in two different containers. I was thinking your current clutch is due to hatch sometime in October, but did you say you were expecting them within a month, or did I not understand you correctly?

Perry
 

Mikey1two

Member
My first clutch laid on sept 2nd and started to hatch jan 2nd. 4 months in the incubator. Two separate containers in the same incubator, so temps were in roughly the same range of 72*. Something might have caused my eggs to hatch a month early, hence some hatching at 4 months and some hatching 3 weeks later at 5 months. The incubation temps were a little unstable at first. My second clutch has been sitting at a constant 72* for the whole time, so I should get better data this time around. Maybe it will be october, I was just going off my data for the first clutch.
Mikey
 

Zach Valois

New Member
Very well done. I commend your results.

What is your supplement and feeding regime?

Your plant on the left is a "Gold Dust Croton", Codiaeum spp./variegatum (a toxic species, which comes to show how much more applications we may have with plants. I have seen many people use this species for many different spp of chams).

Thanks for sharing!
 

Mikey1two

Member
I dust my babies with a phosphorous free calcium/mineral supplement for Indoors with Vitamin d-3 from sticky tongue farms "Miner-All" about once a week. Its what my local pet shop had. I needed something with Vitamin D-3 since I kept my babies indoors. My adults adults don't get this as they are housed together outside year round down here in Southern California, they get plenty of sun for that.

My babies get mostly gutloaded crickets from American Cricket Ranch (looking to change companies, any suggestions?) 24 hours befor feeding off. I gutload with what ever fruits/veg that I have extra in the fridge, but mainly consist of Kale, Collar Greens, Oats, Wheat Germ and what ever fruits I have at the time. When I was breeding my pinheads, they really enjoyed dandelions. Which is an excellent source of Vitamin A. Kale offers a good amount of that Vitamin A as well. The mother received this same gutload but without the Vit D add. She got the our calcium powder, more during the second clutch, when I was ready and noticed the signs.

My babies have not been introduce anything like silks, hornworms, mantis or meal worms yet. But are about the size that I feel comfortable doing so. They love the occasional Blue Bottles .

Its no secret that the parents were housed together in my large outdoor cage and breed at their own free will. Keep the cage well planted and they will all get along. I got two clutches from my female in the year that I had her before her tragic passing. Ive read where other people might get 3 per year, but I guess my female just wasn't up to breeding that much that year. The weather could of played a major role in that as we didn't have a very wet year down here. The parents just got 1000 Gutloaded crickets dumped in their cage once a week. One big feast in the beginning and the rest of the week they had to hunt down any other insects that hung around (spiders, moths, flies, butterflies on occasions and crickets.) I kept it like it would be in the wild. They wanted to eat, they have to hunt. I check on them once in a while, but they are not the main attraction to any visitors. They are misted on a timer, more often during hotter days and believe it or not my male which I have had for 5-6 years is pretty calm for not having much contact. He doesn't eat out of my hand and he turns down meal worms.

Using this method, Ive lost 9 out of 13 babies. 8 of them babies died in the egg or within a day of hatching. and one died about a month into its life (it was eating/drinking normally before that!?) My mother didn't receive the proper care to produce a health 1st clutch, but improved for the second clutch. Sadly I lost my beautiful female and cant improve on a third clutch, but as you can see I still have the strongest 4 still growing and 12 "better preped" eggs developing well.

Mikey
 
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