My new chams & questions

[farrahsc]

Hey guys! I went to the reptile expo in Columbus OH this weekend and picked up two new chams! The first I am told is a graceful and the second a senegal. Now they are both wild caught and were showing some orange/yellow in their urate so I've given them both showers and lots of extra mistings. I know the graceful is a male as he has a large spur on his heel but I'm not sure of the sex of the senegal. They are both very active and drinking and eating well and both have a really strong grip. I'm also taking them both to the vet to have a fecal done ASAP. They are both really sweet! So my questions are:

1. Are they in fact a graceful and a senegal?
2. What sex is the senegal?
3. Any idea of ages? The graceful is about 9 inches long from head to the end of the tail and the senegal is about 5 inches long from head to the end of the tail.
4. Do they look healthy? Anything extra I need to do?

They are in similar set ups to my veileds cage. Both have a 5.0 UVB and a 40 watt house hold bulb for heat, no heat at night, screened enclosures, vines and fake plants but I'm going today to get a few live plants from Lowes. Temps are around 80, humidity is about 75%. I'm misting 4 times a day and running a dripper. Also I read gracefuls need a lower temp so I put the heat bulb off to the side and he still basks under it.
Thank you for all your help!

The first 3 pics are of the senegal and the other 4 of the graceful.

 

[farrahsc]

Oh another questions, if the senegal is a female to they lay eggs no matter what like some other chams?

 

[farrahsc]

Anyone? Lol

 

[justjumpit621]

I am no expert, but I think senegal's are one of the harder to keep species. They look healthy to me but other people will need to chime in to really be of any help. Do research here on the forum, try the search button with key words.

 

[farrahsc]

I'm having a hard time getting both of them to eat which is really bothering me. I brought home some meal worms tonight and added a few of those and some crickets to plastic cups in their cages so I can see how much they are eating for sure. Then yesterday my pygmays were finally shipped after waiting a month and I'm pretty sure both are male and they both have a good body weight but just look a little weak to me. This so not my week lol.

 

[justjumpit621]

I'm having a hard time getting both of them to eat which is really bothering me. I brought home some meal worms tonight and added a few of those and some crickets to plastic cups in their cages so I can see how much they are eating for sure. Then yesterday my pygmays were finally shipped after waiting a month and I'm pretty sure both are male and they both have a good body weight but just look a little weak to me. This so not my week lol.

Well first don't feed mealworms. Use crickets, dubia roaches, silkworms, hornworms, things like that. Mealworms have too much shell and no nutrition. They can cause a cham to become impacted. Also, if you just got them I wouldn't expect them to want to eat right away. Try letting the insects free range inside their cages or leave a cup in there with a specific # of feeders so you will know if they ate any. Watch out if you let the crickets roam free though, they will take nibbles out of your chams when they are sleeping. It would also help to put the descriptions of theri care and setups using the how to ask for help sticky in the health forum.

 

[farrahsc]

They are both set up like my veiled, you can see it in this post, with the corrections lol HERE
And ya I never leave crickets in there, all of them are cup fed. I do have some silkworms too I will take out the meal worms and trade them for the silk. No one around here sales roaches or horned worms. But I always give crickets as well.

 

[kinyonga]

I have never had a female Senegal produce infertile eggs like veileds do. Senegals are no harder than veileds as a rule to keep in captivity as long as you make sure that they are drinking well. Most of the Senegals I've had have not been shy either...but Gracefuls can be. Male Gracefuls (in my limited experience with them) are more difficult than the females when it comes to doing well in captivity.

 

[farrahsc]

Do mine look ok to you for WC? I'm very worried about the senegal, he/she opened it's mouth tonight and I could see red lines around it's gums, isn't that a sign of a mouth infection? Can you tell by the pics if it's a boy or a girl and about how old they both are? And thank you guys for responding to me!

 

[kinyonga]

I don't know of any being hatched in captivity and from the look of them I would say they are WC.

I can't see the Senegal's tail so I can't be sure if its male or female...but it might be male going by what I can see of it. Don't hold me to that though!
Can't be sure of the age either...sorry.

Regarding the mouth...can you post a picture? It could be normal. With mouth rot you will usually see irregularities in the edge of the lip.

BTW...I hope you are following quarantine procedures with them since you have other reptiles?

 

[farrahsc]

Yah I was thinking male too, he has a bulge at the top of his tail. And yes they are both WC, the senegal is about 5 inches long from head to the tip of his tail and the graceful is about 9 inches. They are both sleeping right now, but I will try to get a picture of the lines in the morning. I'm really hoping your right and it's not. There is no puss or mouth deformations on him, just those red lines. And I'm not sure what you mean about the quarantine procedures? I do wash my hands after touching any of my animals and going to another and their cages are no where near each other. I do use the same spray bottle but it never touches the cages.

 

[kinyonga]

If there's a bulge at the base of the tail then its a male.

I misread your question and thought you were asking if they were WC's...but I see you were asking how they look...they look pretty good for WC's!

Its important to quarantine them since they are WC's. I wouldn't use the spray bottle for them and your other reptiles. IMHO its better to keep everything separate for a while. Some bacteria are airborne.

 

[farrahsc]

Ok great and not a problem I have a few extra spray bottles I can use. Thank you so much for your help and I will try to get a pic of his mouth tomorrow. Do you know of anyway I could get an age on them?

 

[kinyonga]

If the Senegal is only 5" from the tip of his tail to the tip of his nose, he's young. Can't tell you how you can be sure how old they are...sorry.

 

[Cainschams]

They do look pretty good for WCs! Ive always liked the gracefuls for some reason. I saw a nice pair in a pet shop quite a few years ago. They were nice and I should have snagged them up! Where at in WV are you if you dont mind me asking? Im near New Martinsville now. Just havent changed my info

I would also not cup feed them. WCs dont tend to take to cup feeding very well, at least at first. Just free range them and also blue bottle flies are good for picky eaters. I get mine at mantisplace.com.

 

[farrahsc]

Thanks Cainschams! I'm in Charleston. It's so great to see another WV person here! ANd thanks for the site! I love Mantis and they have some beautiful ones! Plus that's a great deal on the blue bottle flies, definitely going to order some. They did both finally eat today! The senegal ate 6 crickets and the graceful ate 6 crickets and 4 wax worms! I was super excited lol!

 

[Affordable Exotics]

They are definitely wild caughts.....but good quality ones

I have delt with over 500 of the Gracilis and more than 1000 of the Senegals...they are a cheap import and quick resale item,that's why most of the tables at the expos when they come in.The wild caughts have those black squiggly markings on them like you see from over crowding and getting scratched up,it will shed mostly with time. I also agree that they need from a couple days to a week to settle in before they eat much. Make sure to spray them alot for the first month though. And do you have them together? Sometimes that will cause stress at first,they are very active and have a great disposition with people and other reptiles. And the mouth could be a visual parasite so post some photos so we can see them. If you have any questions you get in touch with me through my site www.affordableexotics.biz
Good luck,
JJ

 

[farrahsc]

Thank you so much JJ! I took a quick peak at your site and loved all your animals! They are not housed together but in separate screened enclosures. And I have been doing alot of extra mistings as well as dripping water on the senegals nose for him to drink. I can't wait for them to shed, at first I wasn't sure about all those black dots, thought it might be mites till I got on here lol. And you are so right about their disposition, the sengal will walk right out onto your hand, he loves attention. The graceful isn't aggressive like my vieled but seems would just prefer to be left alone lol. They are both eating much better now.

I tried like 10 times to get a good pic of his mouth and this is the best I could do, although I don't think it will help much. It looks like blood vessels running along his gum line.

 

[farrahsc]

The graceful is doing wonderfully. He's eating great, very active and seems really happy. I added a large live plant to his enclosure and it really seemed to help giving him for coverage.

The senegal has ate 6 crickets in the week he has been here.
His last fecal deposit still showed some orange so I gave him and the graceful a shower yesterday. But I've seen him drinking alot more then he had been. I also added two live plants to his enclosure.

I can't believe what a difference live plants makes, their colors look so much happier. All of my chams now have live plants.

My 5 month old female veiled had ate the two leaves that were on her pothos, I was hoping it would fill out but no luck lol. She now has two brand new live plants as well. She has also grown 2.5 inches since Christmas!