Melleri Sex Revealed?

[lbesok]

So this morning I was observing my Mellers, and the small "male" Rambo who is usually in his tree, migrated to a horizontal perch to get a closer look at Shera on her near by horizontal perch. Then I witness "him" clicking and flapping at "her"! I got it on video, but can't find the cable to hook it up.
Like other species of chameleons is this also typical of the Mellers, for the male to display like so to the female. When Rambo started doing this, She-ra instantly got darker colors (typically white with yellow bars) and started retreating to the bottom of the cage. Would Rambo possibly display to another male, or do you think I have a true pair as the seller initially suggested?
Also does size matter, would a big female be turned off per say because her male wasn't of adequate size?
Heres some pics Justin took of She-ra:

& Rambo:

I also suspect these two to be from different regions. She-ra has a HUGE head, that is exhibited in the northern territories, if I'm correct, while I believe Rambo is from farther south. Would this affect their likely hood for COPULATION ?

 

[Jeweledchameleons]

size matters.

Oh man.... lol

Also does size matter, would a big female be turned off per say because her male wasn't of adequate size?

Maybe she's just REALLY fat?


honestly....
I don't think it matters. geeze.
they're caged and when given limited options
they'll breed.

I would be more concerned about mixing localities

perhaps we could use the video to help other keepers
identify the sex of their animals?
intruding male + given response = sex ID?

 

[lbesok]

Aww man is that your girlfriend? lol I can't stop laughing..... well she is 360g!
I think I'll go out and get a cable today so I can upload that video later, and get some opinions on it. The only thing is I wasn't recording She-ra....

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Kristina would probably have a good idea after watching the video. All I would say at this point is that I have observed both my male and female lobe flapping and communicating for reasons other than romantic. Usually to tell each other "get out of my way! You just happen to be resting right where I want to be!" Which I take to be flexing their territorial muscles at each other.

Ours are vastly different sizes, as well. A huge 530g female with large head, and a smaller 245g male. At first he was intimidated by her, till he finally stood his ground. Since then he has insisted on equal footing with her, and won't allow her to push him around. When he wants to come through her area, he lobe flaps and does a few sharp head bobs. There is probably also verbal communication, but I don't always pick up on it. Sometimes she will remain still, and there will be a long close stare-down, before she moves.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

All melleri will flap there lobes at other melleri to assert themselves, so it doesn't have to say anything about sex.
What were Rambo's colors like when this happened? During courtship males are usually black, yellow and white.

How big is the cage you have them in? Do they have individual basking and misting spots?

- Suzanne

 

[lbesok]

All melleri will flap there lobes at other melleri to assert themselves, so it doesn't have to say anything about sex.
What were Rambo's colors like when this happened? During courtship males are usually black, yellow and white.

How big is the cage you have them in? Do they have individual basking and misting spots?

- Suzanne

Thanks Suzanne
Rambo was his pretty usual colors, light green with yellow bars, he was clicking his head like crazy though. I guess it might have been the first time in a while that he's seen her in the cage though. The cage is 10ft long x 3.5ft wide x 7.5 tall.
Usually Rambo hangs out in the big ficus tree, while She-ra likes to be up top on one of the many horizontal branches. They both like to eat & receive water from these places. They both are as sweet as can be though I rarely handle them, and have learned to accept water from a baster as well as cup feed. I also have 2 10.0 blubs set up above where they hang out. The set up is on the porch in south FL so I don't intent to fry them with basking bulbs. The temp & humidity has been fluctuating; the temp from mid 70's- hig 80's, and humidity from 40%-80+
My only concern is that Rambo had a little escapade a couple of weeks ago. I was letting him bask outside on the ficus, and when I looked up he was GONE! I searched for him for over 8 hours and FINALLY found him. I'm digressing, so when he came back his ankle appeared to be swollen! Since, with vet recommendation I have given him a 7 day course of baytril, which did nothing.... Then proceeded with an anti-inflammatory for 5 days along with a soak, which did indeed reduce it a bit. He rarely uses the foot, and favors it. Rather than that his colors are normal, he eats sooo much and drinks till he drools like a dog! I really should start a new thread, but I'll include a photo of the ankle:

And for fun, photographed by Justin Carl:

Like I said the swelling did go down a bit, or else I'd be rushing him to the vet. But right not IDT it's worth the stress. The black part you see I thought might be a bite, my boyfriend swears it's been their ever since we got him. But the great escape didn't occur until a good 12 days after we got him....

 

[Sepioteuthis]

When you took Rambo to the vet, did you get an X-ray done? I'm asking because it could be a bone infection. Is so the swelling is unlikely to go away untirely, even if the infection is cured.

 

[Carnae]

If you think it is a bone infection - or indeed an infection of any kind - I may have an idea/solution for you. I worked in a pharmacy that specialised in homeopathic remedies for a number of years and often recommended Manuka Honey for infections. It's just honey, completely natural, but its brilliant against infections. I even witnessed it cure MRSA (don't disbalieve me, saw it first hand!!!) and a bone infection in humans. Unless theres a specific reason that chameleons can't have honey - I don't see why they can't if they can have pollen - I would really recommend you try that. Won't hurt, but could do him the world of good.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

I wouldn't assume that honey is harmless for chams. It's not a natural part of their diet and I'm not sure how well chams can deal with sugar in their diet.

 

[Carnae]

Well for a human the dosage is a teaspoon a day, so it would only be a very small amount for a cham.

 

[lbesok]

When you took Rambo to the vet, did you get an X-ray done? I'm asking because it could be a bone infection. Is so the swelling is unlikely to go away untirely, even if the infection is cured.

Nope he never went to the vet for this issue, just the initial check up.....so no x-rays. We have just been conversing. If it were a bone infection what is the cause and wouldn't I see some result from the antibiotic?
Thanks for the ideas and responses.
Where would one go to get this honey?

 

[Carnae]

You can order it off the internet, not sure about suppliers in the states, but from what I've heard you guys buy more 'alternative' medicines than we do, so it should be easy to get hold of.

 

[bucky]

Id like to see a video of him "flapping" his lobes,ive always thought mellers were really cool. Id also like to see your enclosure Hope his ankle becomes better.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Just my opinion .. but,
I wouldn't feed honey to a chameleon.
It's dangerous to feed to baby human beings (bochilism).
And as previously stated, it is certainly not part of a natural chameleon diet.

-Brad

 

[Jeweledchameleons]

I would stay off the honey
*small amounts* may be fine
but the simple sugars may cause some serious problems
with the intestinal microflora.

a bite would show teeth marks
I don't see any here in the picts
it looks like it's a crushing injury but not a chameleon bite
if it spreads then you've got a problem
otherwise I think it'll heal up.
maybe he got it caught in the branches outside?

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Nope he never went to the vet for this issue, just the initial check up.....so no x-rays. We have just been conversing. If it were a bone infection what is the cause and wouldn't I see some result from the antibiotic?

The results would necessarily be visible on the outside - the swelling may not change much. What will happen is that once the infection in dealt with the body will start healing the break and the swollen area will harden (not a vet so I'm not sure I'm explaining right).
Bone infections usually occur around broken bones. He could have gotten the broken bone when he was collected from the wild or anytime after that. I had a montium with 2 broken bones that weren't obvious except on x-ray. One break had healed on it's own, the other one was infected. We put the little guy on batryl for 3 weeks and that did the trick. Ofcourse batryl will only work is the infection is caused by a gram negative bacterium. If it's something else (fungal, for instance) it has to be treated differently.
Either way, I think a week of Batryl is very short. According to my vet (again) it needs to be at least 10 days to make sure the infection is fully cleared. A shorter treatment can make the bacteria causing the infection resistant to batryl (just like with antibiotics for humans).
Bone infections are very tricky, but I have had 2 chams that survived it without needed surgery (the montium passed away after 2 years, still have a ~ 3.5 year old melleri with a healed bone infection).
I don't mean to scare you - it could be something else - but I would have that leg x-rayed.

Good luck,
Suzanne

 

[lbesok]

The results would necessarily be visible on the outside - the swelling may not change much. What will happen is that once the infection in dealt with the body will start healing the break and the swollen area will harden (not a vet so I'm not sure I'm explaining right).
Bone infections usually occur around broken bones. He could have gotten the broken bone when he was collected from the wild or anytime after that. I had a montium with 2 broken bones that weren't obvious except on x-ray. One break had healed on it's own, the other one was infected. We put the little guy on batryl for 3 weeks and that did the trick. Ofcourse batryl will only work is the infection is caused by a gram negative bacterium. If it's something else (fungal, for instance) it has to be treated differently.
Either way, I think a week of Batryl is very short. According to my vet (again) it needs to be at least 10 days to make sure the infection is fully cleared. A shorter treatment can make the bacteria causing the infection resistant to batryl (just like with antibiotics for humans).
Bone infections are very tricky, but I have had 2 chams that survived it without needed surgery (the montium passed away after 2 years, still have a ~ 3.5 year old melleri with a healed bone infection).
I don't mean to scare you - it could be something else - but I would have that leg x-rayed.

Good luck,
Suzanne

Thank you for your perspective and insight used to help answer my question and figure out the current situation. The mas does feel pretty hard to me. I'm a bit confused about the X-ray bit. How would you know if it's a broken bone (just from MBD or something) vrs. an INFECTED broken bone? I'd like to emphasize that it hasn't gotten any worse, but it hasn't really gotten too much better either. The Melleri that you have now that has recovered from the bone infection, what does the site look like. Is it swollen or does it look normal?

I've also noticed on She-ra that one of her outside fingers on her left hand is also a bit swollen.

I suppose I should seriously consider taking Rambo over to the vet next week. I've been holding off b/c it hasn't seemed to get worse or affect his daily living habits, and I didn't want to stress him more than necessary, plus the vet is over a couple hours from where I am now. Next week from Tampa it would be an hour to Orlando. I'll talk it over with the vet while gathering some more ideas (hopefully from you great people on the forums) and go from their...... I'm hoping Kristina will chime in soon

 

[bucky]

WTB pics of cage and the video of him flapping his lobes

 

[lbesok]

WTB pics of cage and the video of him flapping his lobes

Haha Please hold your horses! Not only did i leave the cable in Tpa bult also my battery charger....so it will have to wait till Mon. My camera stinks too, so don't expect to be too impressed

 

[Sepioteuthis]

I'm a bit confused about the X-ray bit. How would you know if it's a broken bone (just from MBD or something) vrs. an INFECTED broken bone?

If the break is infected it will show no sign of healing, instead there will actually be bone missing - the infection eats away the bone.