Massive cage
- Thread starter Stuey!
- Start date
titan501x
New Member
Thats what i was trying to imply, in the wild, they don't have to try very hard to find food, but in a cage there is less food.
Jordan
New Member
In the wild I would guess that only that only 20-40% make it from a neonatal to a juvenille. On top of that if you consider that only 20-40% of the eggs successfully hatch. These are really all just guesses. In any event these are crappy numbers for survival.
In captivity it would be the oppisite with someone who is educated. Perhaps 80-100% hatch rate and neonatal/juvenille survival numbers.
Why such a difference. Diet. In a massive cage these feeders will roam around for quite some time before being eaten. Crickets are neat freaks. When dusted most will immediatly start cleaning off the powder or when they get in a sutable spot. On top of that the gut loading will decrease with time as the food that was in there bellies is now being digested and turned into energy. Uvb exposure I would think would be a concern too. This is not the outside where Uvb is at is maximum. They will have to get into the range of the penetration of the bulb and in a big cage they may not do this enough. Smaller cages are easier to stabilize in temperatures and humidity. With less stabilized temperatures and humidity they will need to seek out these things. Young ones do not do a good job with this. They may simply not find the water or misuse their enviroment due to lack of experience. On that note they are not uncordinated but have not developed a "style" for safe climbing. This leaves them at risk to make bad decisions and fall. Also trying to clean out or even find juvenille poop in an adult sized cage would be a task. Moving a chameleon into a larger enclosure is not always just about size but where their behavior is at sometimes.
In captivity it would be the oppisite with someone who is educated. Perhaps 80-100% hatch rate and neonatal/juvenille survival numbers.
Why such a difference. Diet. In a massive cage these feeders will roam around for quite some time before being eaten. Crickets are neat freaks. When dusted most will immediatly start cleaning off the powder or when they get in a sutable spot. On top of that the gut loading will decrease with time as the food that was in there bellies is now being digested and turned into energy. Uvb exposure I would think would be a concern too. This is not the outside where Uvb is at is maximum. They will have to get into the range of the penetration of the bulb and in a big cage they may not do this enough. Smaller cages are easier to stabilize in temperatures and humidity. With less stabilized temperatures and humidity they will need to seek out these things. Young ones do not do a good job with this. They may simply not find the water or misuse their enviroment due to lack of experience. On that note they are not uncordinated but have not developed a "style" for safe climbing. This leaves them at risk to make bad decisions and fall. Also trying to clean out or even find juvenille poop in an adult sized cage would be a task. Moving a chameleon into a larger enclosure is not always just about size but where their behavior is at sometimes.
Joshua
New Member
I know, we just wrote it on the same time ............Im fairly certain that if given ample prey items and multiple locations of access for UV light...........any chameleon would do well in a large enclosure.
Unfortunately having a gigantic enclosure would limit the amount of animals you could keep.
Think about taking a complete wall of a bedroom and bringing out a cage oh say.........4 feet from that wall. You could easily have a cage that was.....14X8X4 wich is almost 450 square feet of space............It could be done with a couple rows of flourescent lighting and multiple basking lights (like recessed can lights) for heat.
My problem would be with me keeping multiple chams in that space. How many males and females could I keep in that? Just how much territory does a cham command in the wild? Im sure not many people know those numbers and you would find that you have alot of problems finding that out.
I dont know about you but I paid a grip for my chams and I wouldnt like to make several multi hundred dollar mistakes.
Sure it would be totaly *beep* awesome.........Id absolutely love to have a spare room walled off for that kind of enclosure........but I doubt that Id be happy in the long run when it came to exacting husbandry.
Not knowing who bred whom...............Not knowing if one male was stalking and attacking another male or stressing out a female till she fell over dead.
I saw Zerah's outdoor cage and I know he has multiples in that cage but I dont know what species he keeps in it and how they fare with being kept in proximity with one another.
Just my .02¢
Unfortunately having a gigantic enclosure would limit the amount of animals you could keep.
Think about taking a complete wall of a bedroom and bringing out a cage oh say.........4 feet from that wall. You could easily have a cage that was.....14X8X4 wich is almost 450 square feet of space............It could be done with a couple rows of flourescent lighting and multiple basking lights (like recessed can lights) for heat.
My problem would be with me keeping multiple chams in that space. How many males and females could I keep in that? Just how much territory does a cham command in the wild? Im sure not many people know those numbers and you would find that you have alot of problems finding that out.
I dont know about you but I paid a grip for my chams and I wouldnt like to make several multi hundred dollar mistakes.
Sure it would be totaly *beep* awesome.........Id absolutely love to have a spare room walled off for that kind of enclosure........but I doubt that Id be happy in the long run when it came to exacting husbandry.
Not knowing who bred whom...............Not knowing if one male was stalking and attacking another male or stressing out a female till she fell over dead.
I saw Zerah's outdoor cage and I know he has multiples in that cage but I dont know what species he keeps in it and how they fare with being kept in proximity with one another.
Just my .02¢
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