Male veiled digging in substate?

[Squizzle]

Hi, i've literally just registered on here as i've read through many past threads and cannot find anything that relates. (sorry in advance if this is long, just a brief history that might help before question at bottom

I have a male veiled chameleon, i've had him about 5 weeks now, he is approximately 2 years old. I got him at this age as we got him from a guy who had to move house and couldnt take him with him, so either had to sell him or have him to put to sleep so i took him on.
He was apparently hand tame with his previous owners, and we know the store he originally came from as we got our bearded dragon there and they are very good and specialise in reptiles.
Since we've had him home, we've made his terrarium more suitable as when we picked him up he only had one small branch in it and one ficus which had been climbed on so much and not watered well that there was almost nothing of it left, also several lots of poo on his floor so he obviously hadn't been cleaned out in a while which wasn't nice.
We let him settle in for a few days before he attempted to handle him as he was a dark brown in colour and stayed at the bottom of the terrarium to start with which we put down to slot of stress from being moved around so much before hand etc. And then he started to come to the top more and turn brighter colours, mostely greens and oranges He came out for a short period of time and was fine with us, was a little nervous coming out but once he did there was no problems.
Since we have tried to handle him and he has gone for me once and my partner a few times and hissed at him but not myself yet, but always backs away as much as he can to hide from us in his terrarium.
Since we have put more foliage in there for him to hide amongst to make him feel safer etc and more vines and branches he seems alot happier but 99% of the time, just walking through the room he will back away and try and hide from us.
First time we cleaned him out we decided to try and let him have free roam rather than keep handling him, so he was quite happy walking over the back of the sofa, on a plant we got for outside the terrarium and up the light (its a cd rack also so like a ladder for him lol) but its close to his terrarium and as soon as he got up to it he started freaking out a bit trying to get back in the side he couldnt and didnt like us trying to help him. and he seems to be very nervous since, the most we can do really is stroke him gently under his chin, if he lets us.

Aside of all that as a breif background to him, recently i have noticed, the past 2 weeks or so i guess, he keeps doing something and i don't know why.. i have had a food dish i put a small amount of fruit and veg in in the bottom corner of the terrarium, he doesnt seem to eat it, or i've never seen him eat any of it but i like to put it in just incase, i'm unsure of his history with eating so can only go by what i learn about him, i know he wont eat crickets so. but anyway, the past 2 weeks or so, i've been coming home from work daily and have found he has been to the bottom and covered the dish and food in the substrate, totally kind of dug it up and onto it... the past few days i have moved the dish higher up onto a plant pot to see what he would do if anything, and the substrate has been again "dug" into, its all pushed out of the front corner so you can see the bottom of the terrarium, like bearded dragons sometimes do to make there "bed". I'm never around when he does this so never actually see him doing it unfortunately. I have been looking online etc to see if i can find out why he could be doing this and what it means but am having trouble finding anything, maybe it's nothing, i'm just intrigued as it's only lately he's started doing it.

Any help or ideas would be much appriciated, if you've perservered and read this far down, thank you

 

[sandrachameleon]

Are you certain it is a male?
what are you using as a substrate (typically, one is not necessary at all)?
Is there anything in the area that could be upsetting him, causing him to want to escape the cage?
What is the temperature in the cage (both at the basking spot and lower down)?
what insects does he eat? (You said he doesnt eat crickets)

 

[Squizzle]

Yes he's a male, has very obvious spurs on his back feet,
He already had when we got him and have been advised to use since oyster shell as the substrate, but very thin layer of it,
32 degrees at basking spot and approx 27 degrees lower down
and currently eating locusts and wax worms when we try to handle him to encourage him, not as main diet. We are a bit tight for money at this moment in time, but shortley will try him on meal worms also, he seems kinda fussy so don't want to waste money on them right now.
And as for anything upsetting him, not that i know of, since we re-done it so to speak he seems to be alot happier than he was previously, always bright unless he gets pissed off and then only goes slightly darker and usually higher up on vines etc. We did put a hibiscus in there which to start with he didnt seem to want to go near, but he wasn't doing this "digging" thing then, dont really know what to call it and seems fine with the plant now, often sits amongst it so i don't know :\ thanks for the quick reply btw

 

[WelshOneEmma]

We keep the basking spot of our male veiled at about 30C with lower down at about 22-25C. I also wouldn't bother with meal worms as they aren't a great feeder.

 

[Squizzle]

I was only going to try them as an occasional thing as he only eats locusts just so there was a bit of variety. We do keep the doors of the terrarium open quite alot so he gets used to us around more in the "open" so does get a bit cooler in there, but when not open it's around those temperatures

 

[Miss Lily]

I occasionally give Amy mealworms as a treat. I make sure that she only gets the white, newly moulted ones. These don't have the hard chitin outer shell that can be hard to digest.

 

[Squizzle]

Don't think i've seen them white, just how you typically see them. He might not even like them yet but still. Just always hear people saying give them a varied diet if possible to keep them interested. it may be too late as his already 2 or so, maybe older, may be stuck in his ways lol

 

[WelshOneEmma]

My male veiled is 8.5 months old and we have had him since he was 6 weeks old. He still hates us and goes for us if we try to handle him. He only comes out when he wants to, and we try not to spend too much time walking past or looking into his cage as they don't tend to like it as a species. You do get the occasional cham that tolerates handling, and even likes it, but I would say that yours is in the majority in that he doesn't want to see you or be handled. I took it quite personally when Hugo was like that, but its just the species . they are like fish, leave them in the corner and view them!

As for the meal worms, the chitin I believe can cause impaction, and they aren't great anyway. You would be better off spending your money on ordering butterworms or silkworms if you want to add some variety. I would also use the waxworms sparingly as they are classed as a treat and you don't want him to get hooked on those!

I know that it is hard when you take a cham on (well done on that - who puts an animal down because they are moving?)and you join somewhere like this and everyone jumps on you for your set up (I would take out the substrate as that is one of the things that is picked up straight away). Everyone here is very passionate about chams and there is some great advice here.

 

[Squizzle]

Yeah, thats why i decided to post as i've been reading alot on here, and was thinking those other worms too, just not sure if the store i get everything from does them, but sure they can order them in so i'll ask, pretty friendly with them there now so. I wanted a cham anyway, ideally i wanted a baby so i could raise him from an early age, but i just got my partner a baby bearded dragon for his birthday about 4 weeks before we heard about Eddie (cham) so we've got both now lol And his temperment doesnt seem too bad, as i said, have handled him before, he's just very nervous i think, he's sat looking at me happily enough right now, im just on the sofa next to him with his doors open so, just having a good night i guess lol. Plus he was hand tame with his previous owners, so hopefully he will just get used to us, if not no big deal but would be nice.
I'm just curious about what he's doing with the substrate , as its in there atm and always has been but his only just started doing it. Just can't find anything that refers to it

 

[Miss Lily]

Try these places for Silkworms, Butterworms, Roaches and Phoenix worms.

http://www.butterworms.co.uk/index.html

http://www.roachshop.co.uk/

I am also on the IW. I get locusts and crix from Livefoodsbypost in Cowes. You could also try Eddie with Morio Worms (also referred to as Superworms).

 

[WelshOneEmma]

Everyone will tell you to get rid of the substrate. It can cause impaction (what type are you using?) if they ingest it. It is one of those possible things that could happen, but why take the risk? One reason he could be digging is that it is too hot and he is trying to cool down. Does he do it when the doors are open and the temps are slightly lower?

As for the handling, a lot of people say their cham is friendly (and by the sounds of it the previous owner didn't sound great) so I honestly wouldn't take his word for it. Assume that your cham hates you, and treat it like that. You will soon find out if he tolerates handling, but I would give it a while. Often they seem tame when being handled as they will sit their with their eyes closed, that just means they are petrified. There are some chams that tolerate it more than others, but veileds aren't usually one of them! Unless they belong to Tiff (aka Miss Lily) who seems to get friendly ones!

As for the worms, Tiff orders them from a company (uklivefoods I think). I haven't tried them yet, but intend to. Tiff has good things to say about them.

 

[Squizzle]

Thats where i get everything too, wont go anywhere else after seeing some of the the places here. Went into place in Shanklin today, not good at all, as for Watergate nursery, i wanted to wring their necks everytime i went there, refuse to now. I'll try him on the morio worms next then and look into the others thanks,

 

[Squizzle]

Livefoodsby post are brilliant, highly recommend them too, it's where i go. and he only ever does it when we're not around so not sure what he's up too, the weather has been quite varied here lately though so maybe that could have something to do with it, prob not but i dont know lol. And as i said we have had him out before and hes been happy enough walking up our arms and on the sofa etc, it's just getting him out, but i've got plenty of patience so i'll let him decide if he wants to or not

 

[WelshOneEmma]

We don't ever try to take him out. If I am misting him and he walks out on to me (which is rare) we then bring him out. But it is very very occasionally that that happens.

What are you using to measure your temps? Are you sure they are accurate? I also have my basking light connected to a dimmer. This way we are able to control the temperature due to the variety that is the UK weather!

 

[Squizzle]

We are looking at getting a dimmer but unfortunately i have recently lost my job so cash is tight until i find another so it has to wait till then, we've got themomiters in there to measure temps, and they are brand new so they are working and accurate, wasn't sure if the one he came with was so got new incase. Also when money allows more, we hope to get him or build him ourselves a bigger terrarium, i'm not overly happy with what he came in but because he was moved from the previous owners house to a mate of his until he sold him, then a drive to ours and getting used to us, we were'nt 100% sure if it was a good idea as it may just stress him out more as he's lived in the same one for 2 years plus. When i put more in there for him i completely changed it around and he seemed ok with that though so may give it ago. If he doesn't like it he can always go back.

 

[WelshOneEmma]

What size cage was it? Did you say? And what sort of thermometer are you using? Digital or analogue? A lot aren't very accurate, so you will need to get a digital one at some point. Ours measure both humidity and temp, so that could be an option when you have a bit more spare cash.

It's a lot to take in isn't it?! I think the fact that he seemed to get more relaxed with the new plants (it does take a few days as they seem to hate change) shows that you are doing the right things for him.

 

[Squizzle]

its an analouge one, do want to get digital though, we want to get same from the dragon as well so soon as we get bit more money it'll be a spending trip at the pet store lol and the terrarium i think... not measuring now because i dont want to annoy him as its lights out time lol...45x45x60cm. Not great at all really but as i said it's all he knows before now. gonna put few pics up, couple from the day after we got him, first day he was just brown and stayed in the floor so and i couple from now, i think he looks happier

2nd day we got him

Now

 

[Squizzle]

Oh, the lights didnt even work when we got him either, only the basking light, that's why the first couple of pics are darker... of course we didnt know this till we got the poor lil guy home

 

[sandrachameleon]

I'd reduce the temperature a bit, see if that makes any difference to his odd behaviour. 30C is hot enough for the basking spot, and the lower end should be about 23C

 

[Miss Lily]

Aww! He looks so lovely! Colours can tell you their moods. Brown generally means that they are unhappy/not well. The fact that his colours have brightened indicates that he's feeling happier. It takes them a few days to get used to their new surroundings.